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Huddle Up with Gus
Huddle Up with Gus

Episode · 2 years ago

Tony Pease

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The founder of GoodBookey a sports-based charity fundraising platform, he also founded Carimus, a computer software company, Tony Pease joins the Huddle. GoodBookey is available on the Apple App Store and the Google Play Store. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Follows here and old navies got all thestyles. You need right now with up to fifty percent off stor wide hurry infor the season's biggest trends like Rockstar jeans and Frost, Free Jacketson sale, Jean started just eighteen bucks for adult twelve bucks for kidsplus get warm and stylish out or were for just eighteen bucks for adults.Seventeen Bucks for kids want to save even more redeem. Your super cash nowthrough Sunday, hurry and now for up to fifty percent off store wide at oldnavy and old Navycom fell e TN, twenty six or eleven three selectas only teday this week. Guest is just an a great story. You knowbecause, as you like to put I he was asubmariner. We don't get a lot of those on our show. We don't get a lot ofthose arn or show he serve their country. You know he was part of that.He goes on to NC state. I think you had a relative or somebody go to school,thester yeah. She was a alumni and a waitress of at one of the bars that he's very fondof down there. Mitches Taer Mitch's tavern. I think there was a wast there, a movie film there, the Buldurham bulldor Volum, and theyjust did a thirty for thirty out of there too. So Tony Peas will be joiningus today from good Booki and his other company Ca Caramis. I think that's oyou say it, but his story is great. Another greatguest of all the transitions that you make another wifaball player. Anotherone were on a streak of lifeball playersright, but his game was to play with both only one hand handed wilhballplayer yeah, making the game harder than it already is. Yes, that alwaysresulted in awkward swings. For me, the one ended, but I've seen it done yeah. I look forward it right or wrongright. There is no right wrong and I look forward to talking with Tony,because I think that huddleup can really find a charity that we can gravitatetowards and work with, good Booki to really raise some money for thatcharity yeah. Well, what I just think it's such an interesting concept,because the sports gaming industry in some people's minds is kind of a darkkind of seedy thing with selfish, and you know people maybe not always withthe best intents and stuff. This is just the opposite hat it's the fun ofgaming, but it all goes. The winter pays. Charity right and O gets his charity paid for the loser feels good because he's Giveng I and hegets tacked right off and he get tax wright off. You know and Tony's a greatguys from the DC area went to Bishop acconnall, big Redskins Fan, it c Fan big ACC fan,so a lot to talk with him to him about today, and it's going to be exciting tohave them on hotdawup and can't wait to hear who, if any famous people are in hisphone yeah, I suspect ther' going to bedefinitely someone out of the tech world. Definitely definitely all right,join ut here on huddleup welcome Tony Peas. So today we have Tony Pes on from goodbookie Tony Welcome to the huddle and thanks for getting in the huddle withGussin Dave yeah thanks for having me, I'm super excited to be here. Yeah. We really want to start with. When youwere young, I mean because Hor shows about how sports impacted you andshaped your life a little bit. So where did you grow up? Who was thatinfluence in your life that really gave you a love of sport? Well, I grew up actually in the DC areaand Sorr 'm, a big Redskins Fan, and particularly the years. Ninety four oninety seven, which a wich your good years. We haven't hada lot of them since, but I grew up in the Hayday of the DCarea sports. So we were super excited...

...to you know with the Redskins and thecapitals you know obviously were performing pretty well the bullets notso much or no the wizards be growing up. My family is all into sports. My my aunt was actually one of the women'snational rugby players before rugby sevens was a big deal. My Dad playedfootball t. The AIRFORTE Academy, I played football basketball at Oconell,Bishop Boconell, an Aringington, so a lot of those guys influenced my love ofsports and yeah. My uncles played at the AIRFORtheable academy, so my I would probably the least accomplished athlete, but thebiggest enthusiast of sports in my family. So what was your first sportsmemory? What was the first? What do you remember from being a kid and playingsports? I remember playing when I was really young playing PopWarner football and I remember playing defensive end and sneaking in on the quarterback andgetting them right and Helmat dawmmit and knocking myself out TAT's my Mfirst,my first memory and I woke everybody was cheering and I think that wasbefore people were concerned about concussions and I was seeing stars andstuff like that, and I think the thrill and excitement of everybody elsecheering is what got me really excited about football and sports in general.Did your mom say you're not going back and playing again? No, it was a normal thing. We all weplayed, I played from there on til through high school, so yeah everybodyin my family played football yeah. That's a big thing nowadays, where kidsare really going and not allowed to play, because parents are worried aboutthem getting hurt, but I always tell them like your kids can get hurt, nomatter what they do. You know, Yeah Ust accidents happen all the time. Tony. Ihave to get this question out of the way we've beaten it to death on ourshow. But did you have neighborhood wit fooeball games? Yes, we did. We hadvery detailed rules where sometimes you could only pat with one hand, you know,there's one kid who could throw a curve. I mean yeah, so it was almost every daywhen it was baseball season I mean our neighborhood was full of kids ut. Wewere lucky to grow up with a dozen or so kids, so we had football andfootball season: basketball, basketball, season, baseball and baseball seasonyeah. We really talk about how the kids aren't doing that these days. You knowwe grew up in neighborhoods, where we were outside all the time you were inthe Liud inside and now with th e sports and everything else times arechanging e Das aret getting out, and we see that in local sports and for thekids, and we all understand as adults. Now that and that's kind of why David?I want to start to show us how important sports are to us and yeah, not only watching themand being a fan, but then playing in them and learning so many valuablelessons from sports. And so what do you think that first valuable lesson wasyou learned in sports? Oh Man, it's! I think teamwork is the obvious thing Imean you know in football in particular, and you have to have everybody's got apretty critical role and any pece breaks down, and then you know thewhole. The whole system is shot and bask on some of the other sports. Youhave. The opportunity to you know have one person who's a dominant athletetake it over, but in football it's everybody's got a job to do, and peoplehave to work hard, and you know that was that's. That's apretty imparn important thing. I mean particularly a business today. You know making sure that you can relyon your teammates. Do the jobs you're expecting them to do that's reallycritical and that comes II. Think from sports right. I agree with that. Ithink also being able to manage. If there's you know like you, don'twhen you're playing neighborhood sports, you don't have umpires, so you don't.You know you're managing yourself, it's self governing and I think thattranslates into the run. O Parents Nopoe O. No, that Youve got to figureit out it. Just like. I remember once time we were playing sports andsomething happend. Soi E got a fight with a kid whent home was crying. I waslittle and my dad said what's wrong with you, I said: Johnny was mean to me.He goes get back out tere and take care of yourself. You know, and that's justhow our our parents were, that wouldn't...

...happen nowadays I mean I can rememberthe times of when I was older and like kids, parentscoming to our House D and yelling at my dad for something I did to their kidand I'm my dad's like we'll. Just have your kid take care of it right thatjust doesn't happen anymore. Yeah is absolutely crazy. There's ithink!It's like emails back and forth between the parents and Yeahn text and Tabireal big with text now full words on text for sure yeah, so Yeu. I think alittle it too far. I think Wee ben a little too far in that direction of youknow, trying coddling and protecting kids and I've got young kids. My kidsare ten eleven and thirteen, and so I'm trying to like you know when they comehome from school a' like what are you doing? Why aren't you outside? You know,there's nobody to play with there's nothing happening outside, so you knowwe try an get them out as much as we can do. Do like pick up sports andthings like that and keep them busy, but yeah I mean it's hard becauseeverything's organized now yeah, you know, there's no kids, organizing itthemselves. You know, I remember as a kid you pick up your bite, you go toone house, get one kid go to e next house. Get another kid. Until you had aTeanand, then you just figure out and go play. So you ow, you go into Bishop. You goto Bishop CCONNALL. What was your high school years like in Sports? You playthree three seasons. We yeah I played golf or tennis,football and basketball, and so they were great. I mean we actuallyhad a quite a bit of talent come out of that school. You know, I wasn't astandout athlete by any means, but we had a number of success. We got beatup pretty regularly by schools like Damatha, but other than that you knowwe held our own. Yes, so then you get in your. Did. You have a favorite coach.You had in high school, we hadthe coach was changing, we had socoachhas and coach Snyder were the two guys that were the headcoaches of thefootball team. When I was there, so I loved them all. I mean I thought allthe coaches were, you know the Catholic school. They were underpaid. You knowovercommitted people I mean they were all teachers as well as coaches, whichI don't know. If that happens very much anymore. I think you know some peoplehave specialty jobs as coaches, but you know these guys were certainly puta lot of work in. You know made it a great experience. Wehad this one coach, Colonel Gutter, who was a army, colonel retired army,Colonel Who's, also the school disciplinarian and coach the defense.So you can kind of imagine what kind of person he was ran. Etention on Saturdays, which Ispent a lot of Saturdays with them yeah Tyeah. He was certainly reallyinfluential, maybe so you're saying that Halo over your head behind you,Willy, didn't, come into play until later. Wull, I'm saying this: It'smaking up for somthing some previous IDISCRETIONS Ghright. So did you get togo to a lot of redskins games when you were younger? I did. I was at the pretty famous giants, game, Redskins,triencs game that ended in the tie. I was I actually. I went to another game thatwas a jets game at the old RFK that ended in the tie, also so only a coupleof them because it was very expensive righ but yeah. I love going to theredseens game. I like the RFK Games a little bit better because that stadium was a you know.That was a machine that thing rocked awe used to get a lot of go ahead. T Iwas Sayi was gon, I'm kind of sad they're getting ready to tear it down Rfk yeah and we met just after you guys, moved ot RFKreally, so I never got to see an art foo game. I just heard, though it wasit wa last an great experience. The last game that we played there againstthe cowboys was just it was just awesome. I mean it was amazing. Youknow the only place ever seen, wit the bleachers actually bounce, and then you have the hog ats and thenyou have the whole band and all their gear and then dance sider came in kindof Whit, bat o. What was e tail gating like it Oldari was it like. It wasoutside the stadium. Just like a traditional yeah, I mean to war. If Kwasn't in a great place, Beh there'r...

...still places where people would tallgame yeah. I mean, I think, that's the experience Ey wanted to create whenthey, I think, what's a new stadium called now, I think Thi Janes ONS isstill Fedex field. Last time I checked yeah, I'm in North Carolina now, so Ihaven't been to a redskins game in quite a while, but it's like aspaceship landed in the middle of nowhere and it's all Parka Lot and whowould have thought ther were they would be tarping off seats to thethat's anOPA? That's understandable, untiln. He was young. There was, you know: There'slike a tenyuare waiting list for season tickets and and that just doesn't youcan just walk right up and get tickets now yeah yeah, probably even more afterthey just blew lead against the eagles eas yeah. That's a tough one! That'stough one! It's hone of those every year is a hopeful year, but you knowjust with our ownership. It's never going to work out right. So Tony Heu played sports in high school, yet I'm guessing Youyou'Ven you're an entrepreneur.You've been involved with many companies started some companies. Whendid you get that spirit when you're looking for college youre thinking, Ithink you were an engineering major. Is that right? That's right, yeah! So,like so wha what kind of pushed you in that in the direction of where you wentto school and kind of like what you majored in and how things kind ofDevelope Im there yeah. For me the entrepreneural thingwas I like competitive things. I mean I think that comes from sports andentrepreneural. You know life it's a little bit more feaster famine and sofor me, that's always been a little bit more engaging if you're going to spendtime doing anything professionally. You know it should be exciting. You knowforty eighty hours a week so a lot of time to spend doing something you don'tlike doing so. I try to gravitate towards things that I'm interested in Iwas. I was in the navy so for as a nuclear sub, mariner ind the navy for anumber of years, and when I got out, I went to NC state, got a degree inmechanical engineering and then the typical jobs in mechanical engineeringore, big companies, automotive companies, things like that and mymentors actually convinced me to go work for him in a small softwarebusiness. So I went to work for him and this was in l, two thousand and six two thousand and five and then so.That's just was a major change in my trajectory to be focused more on thesoftware industry, WHO's, your mentor, his name's Grantwillard, and so he wasran. A company called I cubed and convinced me and my pregnant wife totake a much lessepaying job to come work for him and we did and then, assoon as we got there, he actually sold a part of the company and good want togo work for a Dobe, but we had an opportunity to buy out the remainingassets of the company and kind of take that on as our own project, and so heand I've been pretty close since then so, working together off and on inddifferent capacities. Now, when you mentioned the navy going back to theNavy, you said submariner: Are you in sumrains submarines? That's right!What's life like in a submarine, it's like tight yeah, I mean that's imagineyou know lock yourself in your house for six months, payint, all the walls,gray close, the blines tunifishand race, that's what it's likeman I am, but I have an uncle who was in the navy. He was a commander and he ran. I guess the best way to describeit. When we were going to war, the first Gulf War. He ran all the for the navy. Allthsupplies, but o back and forth from here over there everything trucks, food,whatever his name was Jim deets, but he when he was soing annavy and I was withthe redskins he he offered me to go out on nuclear sub for a day and then comeback and I'm like. I don't really want to do that. I wassix four. He Sik Yeah, you probably not going to fit very well so yeah you beit a forty five degree yeah just walking around that and I had anopportunity to fly INA jet and we had practice. We couldn't go so just C.that's a Bumbero! I know the nuclear...

...sub would have been really cool, thoughyeah the you can still tour them every once in a while they'll pull intoAlameda and COU and they'll provide tours for the parts that people areallowed to see, but it was. It was an interesting experience. I mean, I knowit, wouldn't change it for the world. It's a very tight team, you knowhundred and twenty people. You know everybody's got a veryspecific job. You got to depend on everybody to get your sleep and to eat,and I mean it's: It's a really interesting microcasm of of life,because it's all contained it's. You know again, I it's a buch better memorythan it wasn't experience, because there were some t trying times, but itwas a pretty exciting opportunity. So you were ther out for six monthsstraight. I was on a fast attack and so fastattacks have a different rotational tempo and then so we have wedeplayments at lasted six months or more, especially since September, eleventh soSeptember, Eleventh, which is today, you know, and that during that time,which was for a lot of people in the military was the longest employment, so yeah. So we six or more months, wespent the question that people asked MES. How long have I Wen I' been on asubrine straight and it was a hundred and twenty eight days. It was ninety eight days without seeingthe sun yeah. We that's living in Pittsburgh, whereyou right yeah, exactly Awell. Thank you for your servinces to. We reallyappreciate that at my that you know being on a sub. Is You know those arethe people that protect us, that nobody knows or around I mean do you guys have like how close can youget to something without them? Knowing your even Cote, you know it's got to be crap. You know, there's a lot that youprobably shouldn't share, detail wise, but there's a good book calledBlindman's bluff, which is about the Cold War, Soviet era, submarinerbattles or stocking really, which is a reallygood story that talks about. You know both sides going into harbors andconnecting to cables, and you know doing all sorts of things undetected,wow, so they're, pretty quiet, yeah things had to get a little bit chippythough, but the hundred and twenty seventh day or so right I mean don',don't you S, I mean Yhav hat talke about having to kind of empire yeah, soyou need to like what do you guys do for Stress Relief? I mean it's a it's a different worldlike because you're, not thinking about that because you're in a you knowyou're on a a war zone or her on a battle station. So a lot of times the Imean those things you know one of the things in the navy does really well. IsThey give you good food, and so you had a lot to look forward to like a mealsfor the things that you would look forward to and we would do differentdiversions. We play cards, we you know we playe this PGA to or golf game. Youknow on a computer and do things like that. There's movies that you can watchsometimes, but I mean you know it's a lot of it'sjust like focusing on the job at hand and people are pretty focused. I mean,there's a surprisingly a surprising amount of maturity and resolve, for youknow, eighteen to twenty two year old, kids that are doing this yeah and that I'm sure that carriesover into Entrepreneura world and starting acompany and then being a part of that and saying look guys we get throughanything. You know I'm sure, that's that all carries over it to being aleader. It does I mean tha, there's, obviouslya lot of great examples that you have you know in the military. You see a lotof great leaders, you see some bad ones that give you ideas of. You know how tonot lead, but then a lot of really good ones. That give you examples of what'sgood leadership and how to motivate people appropriately, particularly inthe military, because people are they're bound by you know, wor legal requirements than mostcivilians in their jobs. But you know that's not the way you motivate peopleto do something, and so watching underpaid, overwork people motivated todo something pretty complicated you know is, is a is something that' stuckwith me and in particularly in the workforce I mean, if you, you, findpeople, who've, hired veterans or work with veterans. You know they'll saythat veterans are among the most...

...dependable people that they've have ontheir team, because it's the mission ist, you know they have that missionfocus which I think is pretty critical, so Atso so after the navy is that whenyou went to ncu state, that's right what was life like an NC state,especially as a sports fan, because you're in the heart of ACC country, yes, yeah. In fact, I went to NC statebecause of the Vilvano basketball years. I mean because my wife and I werestationed in Prearl, harbor and Hawaii, and when I was getting out, we weretrying to pick places that we wanted to live. My family was still in DC and herfamily was in mobile, Alabama, theire, big Alabama fans, and so we didn'treally want to be in either location. We wanted to be somewhere between them,so North Carolina came up, and so we actually had all of our stuff shipp toRaleigh North Carolina, because we didn't have an address here and then wewent to mobile. We got married, we had to two or three day honeymoon and whenI found out, I got accepted in anty state having shipped all my stuff there.Anyway, we were kind of already all in so then we drove up. We stayed in ahotel here for the first day and then we found a place to live. The next daywent to classes the day after that and I've been here ever since, and thisIsnin two thousand and three wow now my sister is a graduate and he stayedshe's the waitress, an mitches tavern. Are you familiar with yea? I Shalongtime waitress ofmission, I'm sure she told you that that was one of thefamous scenes from Buldurham was from mitches tavern that, yes, that that,and also they just filmed the just film but te thirty thirty on the ValvaanoEighty three championship and it yea. It was a round table at Mitche, stavardyeah. I was GIN Gess s that that was a big part of you know, being here andbeing in. I didn't really understand the importance of ACC country until Igot here and then of. We were also there with the Philip River Zera, you knw, which was an amazing amazingtime to be a wolfback fan, because you know that really put us on the map foras far as relevance goes, and that was, I think still you know- we've had anamazing string of quarterbacks, of course, with Philip rivers and RusselWilson. You know we'll see how Finley andCakobe Braset is a Gamer. You know a lot of good quarterbacks come out ofquarterback, you I'm not sure it' sticking, but that's what we're goingfor right. You may have to catch up to a few othercolleges for that one, but we're making good progress in thisdecade. You are, you are so after after college, you said youand your wife kind of went on with your mentor andtried what was his company. I qbed. You said I qb Jeff and what was thatcompany? What specifically did they do so they did software for manufacturingcompanies, which is actually was really good background, because I was amechanical engineer and I had a background in heavy Mashuri. I wasnenter in the Navy or technician in the Navy, and I had some work experience inengineering departments. So I was very familiar with you know. Manufacturingprocesses, and so the software was all around optimizing. Manufacturingprocesses like doing digital assemblies and things of that nature, so cad andPLM is, is the terms the industry terms, and so we had customers that were ration Boeing. You know a lot of defensecompanies, we had commercial companies like Caterpillar and comments and bows,and so we would. It was really an interesting job because you go to theseplaces. You'd get to tour their facilities. You get to see how theymake these awesome products. You know one of my favorite ones wasgoing to see the joint strike fighter being built from Moki Martin, which wasgreat, is an assembly line of these. You know billion dollar aircraftscoming down, so really cool. I'm try. How many were they making all of them? There's a lot. I mean Ithink there was probably there had to be tsenty o fifty on theline, and there were the building was, Ithink, a mile long. It was incredible. So do you know how like for a planelike that? How many different companies build products for that plane,manufactave different products for a...

...plane like that, there's hundreds thatI mean sobcomponents to electronics. I mean there's. If you look get acommercial airliner there's over a hundred thousand parts over a hundredthousand unique objects on it, and so and that can have thousands ofthere can be thousands of people manufacturing all those parts that gointo the final assembly. So the process of managing that is Visi around the software work thatwe did right, yeah, because the I remember when I lived in St Louis, Iwent and visited a manufacturing company was a friend of mine and he wasmaking just a screw to fit on one of those jet planes. Just that's all hemade yeah, and so I'm like how many companies are out there that to justmake one little part for this plane, which is amazing, wow. But there'sthere's things like the International Space Station which, if the somebodythey need a hatch, replaced, there's only one part, there's only one hatch,so then com they'll put it out forbid and the company will, you know, did onmaking that one hatch that goes to the International Space Station, and soit's it's really interesting from taking something that there's only oneof like the International Space Station to taking something that there's amillion of you know like a car or computer and seeing how those parts andpieces are manufactured. One of the coolest things that I got to do was triumph motorcycles, which I am amotorcycle fan and I have one triumph myself. I got to go tor all theirfactories and in Thailand, which was incredible, andyou know one of the things that they do is they hand paint their gas tanks andthey sign still to this day, H y. The person who handpaints it signs inunderneath so you get to see a lot of really cool things in thesemanufacturing plants. That's that's pretty amazing. How many like how manypeople worked in one of those plants in Thailand. I mean ohthousands, I mean the. There was fourplants and they were doing different processes or there's thousands of people that workin those plants yeah. So after I cubed and then what was your next, what wasyour next TEP? We sold, I cubes to a company calledKPIT, so I worked with them. We spun off another company called ICI digitalor which was on manufacturing and then in two thousand, a d let' see two thousand and sixteen. Iresigned from my position: A KPIT to start the company that I'm currentlyrunning called Caramus and that's the company that we used to build goodbookie nice and what is Caramis Taramus is a software development,consulting firm. We focus on doing digital strategy and softwaredevelopment. We say we're first light application development. So when peopleneed new things built new products, websites that are highly creative, that haveengaging user experiences, that's what we do yeah. That's pretty amazing,because that is a tough thing. There's a lot of people that don't understandall of that. They have a great idea and they don't know how to put it in intoon the paper or they don't know how to actually design it the right way. So doyou come in and help them with those kind of ideas? That's right I mean notwith the idea, so the person has the idea- and this maybe done someunderstanding of the market traction or the market positioning for it, and thenthey come to us and we can help define the business processes Identifi, thepersonas, who are you building I, for why are you building it and then he canhelp create a blueprint for their application development that startswith creative work, and so whone are the things that makes us unique becausethere's development, chobs and creative shops, but we're the combination ofboth. So when you come here, we can have you, you know. If ome, youknow the cases, this is something we experience personally. So when we weretalking about doing good bookie we wanted to, you know have at built, wewere going to subcontract it and people like. Oh it's going to be two hundredthousand dollars, and you know you got to have this. You got Ta have that, sowe started doing it ourselves and we realized that other people wanted thesame service and so the service that we, when somebody has an idea, they couldcome to us and we could have you know for in four weeks we can have aprototype, you know, and the lookand...

...field, the design of the UX, the RoadMap. The fix price quote like a lot of the pieces that you would need tounderstand whether you wanted to take this product to market, and then youknow in another six months we goet have a built for you, so people spend yearsobsessing about these ideas with no way to move it forward, and so that's wherewe come in and whether it's an individual. We have some startups thatwe work with, but we also have large companies. So you know fortune. Fivehundred companies come to us because they have the same thing where theyneed. You know to define some product ision and we help them get that done.Yes, O Dav and I work with a company that developed an APP that measures amentors, your brain performance. But you know the APP is kind of rudimetryand I know the whole process that they've gone through as as far as aptdesigners and bringing those people in that have to make it better and andthen, when you try to go the cheap route, then you find out that they cutcorners and it's it it's an intensive process and it does cost a lot of money.And one of my things is always you get what you paid for Yep Right. Well, it's,but you want it to be predictable, because you know a lot of times, witbatrepreneurs. They don't have an unlimited bank account to co to coverthe cost of these things. So it's like building a house. You know a lot ofpeople say whyll. I have this idea. Let me get a developer developer, storbuilding it, but that'd be like going up to a construction worker and sayinghey. I want a house, here's where you start building just start building thehouse. You know I want three bathrooms. Whatever, whatever tever you go away,you come back. What's the likelood that they built something that you're proudof right, you know versus the way that homes are actually built. Is You knowyou have four plans, then you have engineering drawings. You have exteriorelevations. You've got all this stuff before permits. You've get all thisstuff before shovel goes in the ground, and so we're trying to take thatdiscipline and bring it into the software world yeah and what is crazyabout building e house, which I've done a few, is that if you make a changeafter everything is designed, the cost goes right through the roof, and that'swhere the that's I'm sure it's the same thing. It's the same in softwarebecause it's like, if you you know, if you're like I wanted ofthe basement, you know you e your house is complete. I want the basementceilings to be two feet higher. That's a big problem, thit's, a big problemafter the house is built, and it's the same. It's software. If you say youwant the database, you know to perform a different way. That's you know,that's the same expense, yeah, those algorithms and everything. Goodplanning is essential, it is essental, and you know when you talk about a goodfoundation. You know everybody thinks like okay, I'm going to pour a goodfoundation for the house, but it actually starts way before that's evendone is, like you said it. If you think about a house, you going to go into theelevation, all t e th, the architectural stuff. You know theelectrical design, the plumbing and and getting all the cutit just a lot ofwork around here is a building a min right. All hehouse may s mae sinking in afewyears, so what's pawn the idea for good booking like how did that? How did that all come about? Actually the way that it came about iswhen we were when we had just taken this job at I cubed and my pregnant wife, and Iwe were a little tight on cash, my friends from earlier they would go onthis annual golf trip and because I went in a different trectry, my incomeis on a different level, and so I always said no to it and so there's oneyear where my wife says. Well, you really should go to this golf trip andwhat it is is it's a three or it's three days of golf five rounds and it'skind of like a riter cup thing. We split up into different teams, a we'vegot all these different formats, and so I'm grinding because there's ahundred dollar bed on this thing and I have to win and I'm a terrible, Golferright, so so everybody's all loose. You know these guys are making two hundredOsardollars a year and I'm barely making sixty and you know, kids on the way and all thissort of stuff. It's I'm not drinking during the courses, I'm just trying toplay the best golf that I can possibly play and it comes down to the final whole and these guys are losing theirminds over the Pi one guy had a you know: Twenty Foot Pot, one guy totwenty five foot put and the winner...

...basically lagged it up within a footand that's what ended winning the game, and so these guys lost their mindthey're jumping around there. I have a video of bit somewhere, which I got tofind ind, so I'm like we won. I got the hundred bucks, so you know I'm like now:it's in my pocket nd. I give it back to my wife and then, but these guys theygo into the clubhouse and they drink it away. It's gone like the money. Theactual monetary value of this had no impact on them whatsoever, and so therewas probably I think there was eighteen people who played so there's ninehundred dollars that changed hands and there was no purpose to that. Ninehundred dollars other Thanto bragging rates and a marker of somebody'svictory, and so I was thinking well, there's got to be a better way toexperience the same thing, but do something useful with that money, andso that's when we came up with the idea for goodbookie, and so I had that onkind of the back of my mind as a data point and then after I was looking forsomething else to do around two thousand and sixteen that was the righttime to get started on it and one of the things that I sorry God, no I'mjust going Tao, ask you so you had a you had that idea you had to build onit now I mean obviously thats what you do. What was your first step in inCreatn? Taking that idea to the next step, to make it a reality, I think quitting. My job was probablythe thing that made it. You know you can't casually participate in somethinglike starting a business and a lot of the stakes that people make as theyhave,something that they really want to do, but they can't quite get it donebecause they're working their jobs, their kids and all this other stuff,thereis, no empirical pressure for them to focus on achieving some outcome, andso, when I resigned it was it was official. Now I had to make it workright. You know because no income and we got to focus ow on how to make youknow the business, productive and, and one of the other things that helped was.We ended up winning a startup contest in Paris, which came with a hundredthousand Uro investment at's, pretty good. You know shortly yeah shortlyafter which was really helpful. Well, Torney tell us exactly what goodbookhe is just oor audience t at doesn't know what exactly good booke isand whife's different than a lot of other sites out there sure so good bookis the Gameification of charitable donations. So what we do is we simulatesports betting to raise money for Hig, amdpact, nonprofits and there's acouple problems that were solving is one is you know people should be able tofreely bet and wager and socially brag about. You know beating their friends.This is kind of like the my friends freaking out on the golf course rightexample. But the other thing is: every year you towards the end of the year,people focus on doing social impact or altrism, you know and of your taxdeductions, but they don't really engage and there's not an easy way forpeople to engage with charities like on a ongoing decess and then for acharity's perspective. They have a really hard time engaging net newdonors and and and doing consistent donations and so good bookie helps. You know. People stay engaged by doingthings like social betding with her friends, which is legal, we're legal ina hundred and all the states and thirty countries which is makes us unique andthen for the charities, it's free for the charities and then a good book. Heprovides away for you to. You know kind of promote your Charitye says when youlose a bet when you know if we were to make a bet and you were to lose, youactually make a donation of my charity and so that's how works and it's ahundred percent tax edectible. So if Dave and I were on playing golf- and wesaid we're going to bet a hundred bucks on this round and Dave beat me- I'dhave to pay to his charity the hundred dollars, and it's all done throughgoodbookieg- it's all done through good bookie right. So you can do there's acouple ways that you can do it. You can there's sports bets. So all sportingevents are in the APP right now. You Bet against the line and then there'sthe Propbet, which you can type in any free form thing. You can voice to textand then you can pick your charity and then the other person excepps aboutpicks their own charity and then another model of good Booki. Is We docorporate challenges so, for instance, if you guys wanted tohave an NFL pick hem, you know we could. We would run a special game that was...

...wethis is kind of a deeper story, butwe do a corporate challenge where it's's, like you can do. Do a privaterepublic game where you can have the public engage as a way to amplify abrands, social mission and then just like the capial one NCA Pickum,except ourss. You make a donation to play. Wow. That's it's pretty interesting, soIkyea, I love the idea and can so there's so many charity events. Youknow, there's there's, there's golf tournaments. There's you know peoplehave all these things: How how can good book you work with these people thatalready have charities and are trying to raise more money for their charities? I mean we've built the platform and sothere's basically five types of betting that occur and so the platform ourplatform can support these five types and we just overlay. You know some branding and I maybe aunique experience on top of it for the APP so there's pickum parley proptryfecto and one other that I'm I'm that'sescaping me, but we have that built into the APSO. For instance, if youwanted to do like the Chive is you know who the tribe is so the Chibe is one of our partners andwe have a custom spelling bee for them, which is a live event that we built. Wedid all the designing of the game for and it what it is, is it's a trifectistype Bhat where the their fans can bet which team theythink is going to win, and they can also make donations to boost challenges. Sothey have to spell it backwards, or you know a couple different things that arecalled sabotages. So we did this for them last year in the first spelling be,and they raised twentysan dollar for the chibe charities, which is theirinhouse charitabler. So that's an example of last year we did a collegepickum. So, every week ticket we had a new charity and we raised thousands ofdollars every week for whatever the charity was, it was featured, and soit's actually a different way for the brands and the charities towork together to you know to do user engagement, but also to amplify thisthe cause and to raise funds for the cause right. I love it. I think it's agreat idea and and the fact that you're going to get a cherrible donation fromlosing to Dave when the golf course is even better right. I think that adreally good. I wouldn't bet on that scenario, but nofat he's about a sixhandicap or something I'm a bout ittwenty, six, so yeah he just won'tplay yeah being grery. He just has to get out o the course of play. That'sall he just don' go outside takes me, but you anway say you can't see to like.I can't really IUSI Trie to work glad the last time Iwent out golf and I wore my glasses and I basically sometimes wer for driving,always for sports television, but I was, I was real sweaty and they just keptfalling off. I think I shout up Bon that Huer. He says it's his glasses. Ithink it's all the twistof tease. He was drinking in the spring. That'sprobably a combination. Maybe there yeah litle know I love it. So good bookie. What'sthe next step for good booking? What do you guys have coming up that excite you wile we've there's a number of thesecompanies are getting into sports spetding, and so one of the thingsthat's really exciting, as we have a partnership with sport, Rader who's,one of the big data providers there, the official data provider of the NFL,we're piloting an internal game for them, so it's only amon their employeeswhere they can do a weekly pick them on the NFL, and so if that goes well we'rehoping to expand that and it's we've been into one week and so each weekthey'll have a different internal prize. At prizes for their teammate for the people in the companyand yeah, so that's pretty exciting to us the ability to run corporatechallenges like private challenges, where you know people can bet and havefun, but it's about social good. So we're excited about that. So have youtalked to cut like we just interviewed a gentleman from fandal couple weeksago, and are you looking to talk to...

...those kind of companies as well,because those are sports? The Real, like you, know, they're betting, to winmoney, but I think that you know that could be like a great partnership. Itfeels like for people to get along with them. I mean there'sdraft canes. Here's Fan Ol, there's a lot of those compny kind of companiesout there, yeah there's a end, a lot more popping up. I mean one of thedifferences, a lot of them use the same technology backend you know.Fandlal draftkings, of course, are well capitalized companies they have theirown products and prettydominant market share. Yau Know I think there was abouta billion dollars invested in those companies respectively, yeah. I knowit's a lot of money, but you know I've been goingto some ofthese conferences and seen to how some of these APP companies are in their approach tothe market. I would certainly think a partnershipwith one of those companies be good for us how good it is for them. We'd haveto figure that out. But you know, one of the important things to know is thatin gambling and sports betding you know it's Sixtyo. Eighty percent of peoplelose money, and so I'm not sure how this plays out from asocietal perspective, but betting isn't a good way to make money for the masks,and so, as gambling becomes a little bit more legal and it's heavilyregulated and these these organizations are going to have to go to state, tostate, to comply with different tax rules and things like that. They don'thave a big margin anyway. So it'll be interesting to see how this all playsout. I mean it's certainly good for us that people are more open minded aboutsports betding, Ou Kno. When we got started. We had a lot to overcome. Youknow saying, but you know, don't worry it sports betting, it's legal in itsforcharity and people are quite that doesn't make any sense right, so you parted with sports one marketing aswell right. We did yes, so we ran the college pickhum for them last year and what was that like? So How did Warren Moon do? Did He win hisbet? He did pretty good yeah. He did pretty good and ScottMeltzer did pretty good. Then those are the two principals over there yeah. It was fun to work with thoseguys. We had a great time experimenting with how to place the charities. We hadsome really good prizes. We had all expense paid trip to the Rosebowl wasfor the winner, and so a couple guys got a l trip of a lifetime. We had acoaches, verse Cancer Experience for Las Vegas, so we sent a couple peoplethere and then th. The Guy who won his dad was actually cancer survivor. Sothey brought him down on the court and he had a really great experience. Soone of the big things we learned from the sports on marketing activity waspeople value the experiences. So if we can have prizes that are somethinginteresting for people to do that generates a lot more use yeah. I likeit Dave. Well, I just think it's. The concept is it gives sports betding iskind of not like good bookie, but on othersites and offshore and everything it's kind of a dirty, but they would have aorn sinofa yeah, exactly it's sort of a dirty selfish. This is just theopposite of that. Right has a feel good thing and you're, not if it just feels like whell winterlives, it's you're winning. So let's say you play some pat and I'm just O'mgoodbooking. I want to place a bet on a game. So if I win that bet that how does that work? You know, I'm saying I just win thatsat your charity. If you're doing the pickum right like if e one of ourpickum games, you make a donation to play, and so whoever the host is. So ifyou wanted to have you know, Gusson Daves, you know nfl challenge or somethinglike that. You guys would pick the charity that you wanted to support. So every donation would go tothat charity, at', O the ideas like, of course, so what in sports on marketingwe rotated the charity every week? What we learned was that wasn't really good,because the charties couldn't get any traction ano the cause and that we kindof marginalize the value of having an impact at to what we found is that it'sbetter to stick with one charity. So if you were going to do a multi week pickthem, you would have you know...

...the vfoundation or we would haveAmerican cancer ociety or something be a promotional partner, because thenthey can reach out to their network and get r their fans engaged playing andyou can reach out and get your fans engaged and we can get our fans engagedand so that's kind of a marketing effort. That goes three ways, and soit's really important to have the charity engaged, because the charity isthe one that compels people to act. So, for instance, for hotaop for a podcast.If we want to go out and find a charity that we want to be involved with, wecan then call you and then we can really work with that charity. Get ourfans engaged and really try to get some benefit towards that charity, one wayor another one way or another right, and then you would get price sponsorsas well, because you have to have something to value, so it could be. Youknow, play golf with Gusson Dave or something like that. You know peoplethat would be like. I said people really value the experiences, so youcall us we designe something that would sit on top of our AP and it would bebrand focused, so itwoud be very branded for huddle up and yeah. Thenyou would go, we helpl promote it. Charity promotes it. You promote, itsounds like a plan Dave. No, absolutely. How is business been you've been openout a few years with good bookie yeah. The good book is making steady progress.It's we still have some objections because we're smaller players in thesports spinding space. I think we have better technology than most becausewe're kind of nerds in basements. You know here, but we're in North Carolina,so we're not as capitalized or wired into some of the networks where we liketo be so. We've been making steady progress, the CARAMAS business, theapplication development, is going great, we've thirty people, you know in ourcompany we've got two offices and Raleih, which is where I am, and BolderColorado and some people remote, and so we bootstrod this company from twothousand and sixteen to now, and it's been like a rocket chip yeah. So we'rekind of doing the same thing we started back in March. We were with a mediacompany and then we kind of came back and did startindg to do it on our ownWehave, a few people we've been growing steadily everever since, and it is alot of work, it's a passionate everybody in your group has to have andbe on the same boat. I think it's something that fun that wecould mably try with our all of our guests that we have about. We've hadsome incredible guests on already and we have some coming in the future and Ithink ITW'LD be a lot of fun just to do a simple bet with them before you knowduring the show o when they come on, and then everything goes to charity. Ithink I'd be a great way to do it. Yeah I'd love to talk to. We figuredsomething out. I mean we can come up. We were pretty creative when it comesto the ways to get people to bet and things that you can bet on. So we canshow you some of the stuff we've done in the past and we can see if there'ssomething that that resonates that you guys may pitch in. Do It da your noabit on the Paer. So it's it's it's great for the other guy, thoughyeah, that's what we're worried about yeah. So in this case it's actuallygood, although yeah and your even o Tho Bro and your Baon, others fan an wellyeah after he last game. I think you're. Okay, after now, they don't play pay,they would have given me. Maybe their line was plus thirty and I would havebeen a ha wes pushed. I don't think it was that bad right yeah, we have to addan extra digit for the Patriots Line this year, yeah riht, really after thelatest developments yeah. Where do you guys get your Lions Sport Rader is our Os, our oddsprovider and our feed provider? That's pretty good and then are youdoing can? Can you bet on every sport or you just we're trying we have you. Can PremierLeague, you know all the major sports some wewill do golf sometimes for custom events. Yeah I mean we could do anything andeverything has a feet. I mean we could do esports. You know, even becausethere's a feed on there's a line for everything, we're considering doingsomething for the upcoming election. You know letting people betton theoutcome of the election, I'm not sure if that's good or bag that primariesyeah yeah e sports is growing like crazy. I just did a camp down andDallas Fort Worth and esports was big...

...part of it and the one professor therewas saying that there is a game. It's called do, Dota, it's an acradym andthey played over in China. The winner, the Total Prize Pol, was thirty fourmillion dollars and the winner one fifteen million wow in esports, andit's growing like crazy. But there's that one kid who won the fortnight fromPennsylvania O was he wel. He went. He won more than Tiger Woods, one forwinning the masters or something wer. Three million bucks yeah, I think, waslike fifteen or something yeah, just Yeh Yeah, if you're twenty, two you'retoo old for esports, which is oh yesh. There's such money in it atoul be Itd,be a great way because with twitch and all those different avenues wherepeople love to go and watch, that would be a great way to get involved into. Youknow betting on it. You know where it goes to charity and you feel good aboutit because the sports is getting to where it's you know. Hey. We gotto getthese kids interested in some other stuff, yeah, absolutely whiffleball. We canalways go back to litfelon its on it's a yeah. I know I doubt any e sports kidcould hit your curve Dave. Well, they wouldn't even know what if hi said,wiffl ball, they woul Takeye, have to spar forthy Scram Ja. Dave says he hasa cur from Twen to six. So I'm still waiting to see it. It's nice. We got toset it up. We got at our new studio here we big enough. We can probablyhave BP after we get up Tho lit tona yeah. Definitely you said Youwre inThirt, half N Times Oh see I ha on. I was never a fan of one and it it's aawkward swing, but the bats o light like to handed it's almost like it's aI know, but I just I felt strong awas like girl am older. I'm I was likeDarrel Strawberry. I love you. I could swing left into better yeah wit. I likethe Willie starger windup. That's that's all! That's! That's a classictoo Tony said you're. Also in thirty countries hows international business, I absent flows because we don't promoteit as much as we as we probably should, and then we have to there's sor t somuch leak, ementation that we've spent a little less time and focus onthat we won. Obviously the startup contest was from Paris and so there's acompany called PMU, which is a horse racing company that we spent a coupleyears, trying to figure something out with that. We couldn't do we. You know we have people bet on someweird stuff that come in from like Turkey and Iran and every once in a while, we'll seesomething coming I'm like. Are we even supposed to be there? We don't know wejust kind of let it go. How do you bet on Cricket Donwe? Don't have a feed on cricket, Idon't evenly, but we could get one I mean. Do you have an open bet for fivedays? I'm not sure how that ev work don'teen know, because that's that's ahuge sport. It's like wilfeball with a paddle yeah in away yeah. I we ID weshould get into it. We should get into that. That's, as you should do, is tasta cricket tournament and just get a bunch of your old athlete buddies teachthem how to play. Cricket N N HAVE A game yeah. I don't know if there'senough beer in Pittsburgh, for that, other is tfsburgand cricket. Just don'tseem like theyr Mash that I don't think we have a lot of fan. BASEFOR ID belike going to a pirate game again back to the pirates, but yeah S, your Aomight be better attendedt and I think it's Tarerthe Pittsburgh InternationalCricket Club Yeah Right Right Actually get some of the pirates to play. ThaMuch is beg or Lik. I woles up y great yeah. This is no. You would like yeah,no one, no just like everybody like us, so fun yeah, we change different rulebut yeah. So I think good bookies, a great idea. Obviously we'd love to talkto you later about. If there's something that we can do charity wivetogether. I think that would fit in to really in our mission and what we wantto do with with huddleup and- and you know, R Rour goalness is to reallyinform people about how important supports are in people's lives and allthe transitions you've made just thinked about to e how you got here andeverywhere, you've been with your wife...

...and and everything it took to get towhere you are today and every one of our stories that we've had on has beenabout that and the amazing transitions we've never had a submariter either. No,we have not, and just to just to tell your story, we appreciate it. We do onelast little segment here where it's called no huddle, it's kind of fun.We fire a bunch of questions at you D and love to hear your answer so davefire away in Te Hodel. Okay, now I'm going to guess this is going to besomewhere in the ACC, but I'm gonna well ask Tony: What's the best sportsvenue you've ever been to lame stadium? I Virginia Tuck. ReallyI've never been there, but I've seen M on TV, though atherle crazy go to aThursday night game. If you have the chance, I mean Thet's, not veryexpensive. You have to go to Thursday night game it it's nuts all right, so you have you're a bigsports fan and I'm sure you not sure if you're amovie buff. But what is your favorite sports movie slapshot? Yes, we just hadDave Hansenon not too long ago. Oh really, yeah from slasshot. He wasawesome, a great answer. Yeah. I love it. Thatw'sfirst one we've had I like it: it's usually leagueof theirown we've hadnumerous Gesa Leagas erown yeah three in a row. I think I haven't seen it yet,but they were I'd rather watch. They were women's authors and Writers andstuff so that WUS true, that was etwuld Changee. It was more fitting Tuny and Irosay my second favorite is the natural. That's whathat's a class, and actuallyyou can see the I don't know if you can see, but the sprinkles in the halo fora logo, Oh from the the for the home, run scene yeah. So one of one of mypartner in the business who's about my age, I'm like I'm like you know, wewant sprinkles on the halo like in the natural he's like what's the naturalI'm like what Yo haven't seen the natural, so I made a watch the home runscene from the natural on like like that. That's what it's got to look likeknow I get accused of from my wife of not being very sensitive and evercrying or anything. I think the natural is one thing that can actually, besidesthe birth of my children, the natural always gets me Djust a little itlled up,yeah Jony. What's the most overhyped thingtoday in sports? What's the most overhyped thing todayin Sports Oman, oh the wild cat. Unless it's taste ofhealth right right well, yeah, he is pretty good it the saints right at thelow quarter. I don't even know what he is. They say he's a quarterback, but heplays special teams. He's a receit cut, touchdown yeah, it's crazy! It seemlike Ta. I love watching hem it seem like for, while teams were like tryingto just force the wildcut in and it didn't even like apply to theirpersonnel yeah when I, when I played for the dolphins, they would lovebringing Ronnie Brown in. Do The wild cat with him and Ricky Williams in abackfield yeah I'd be like yeah I'd watch that right cool, that's right! So if we had to go through your phoneright now and we aske Tis for every guess, like who's the most famousperson in your phone right now, the most famous person and my phone, probably Dave Meltser from sportsmonmarketing, nice he's, probably the most famous, I think, Borin moons contactinformation might be in there somewhere right. That would apply yeah, we alwayssay like if you call them what they answer. That's what that's! What ourcriteria is? Oh, I probably get screened on both fronts. Welcome to the CLOK yeah, exactly notTony! If you could go back in time and tell a younger version of yourself onebit of advice, what would that be? Oh, obsess about learning to long snap.So when I was in high school, I didn't get a lot of field time.

There's a kid dhis names Casey Crawfordwho ended up playing for Tampa Bay, a kid he was sick. I am six two and I wasa hundred and sixty pound soak and wet trying to play defensive end, and thiskid was guy man, six man at the time he was sixsix t twenty, but just you know, and after he came to the team I was I hadto find my positions where I could, and so, if I could go back to my youngerself, knowing that I'm going to be under two hundred pounds, no tallerthan six two I'd obsess about the little details and special teams tokeep me in the game. So I can H v played in college. Oh yeah, the moreyou can do, that's the that's the Motte! That's he allright! So long snappingwas a long. Sapping was the thing I heard somebody get scholarships forlong sapping D, that's something I think I wovn! I know we have when mykids went to central Catholic here in Pittsburgh and we have two of our longstappers. I got full rise one to pit and one is long sepper for Climson, so it does pay off if you're good at it.Yep Ma lack an notorityit. I mean there'sso there, but there's NFL longsnappers have been the League fifteen year right. You know, you don't knowtheir name but they're. Getting an NFL pay check, exacty, nop, exact and nowthe rules you barely get touched. Yeah you they can't. They can't hit you.They can knock you down. So we can't even be in front of you on Togols anextour point, no sounds Lik a good Gig, yeah good ga. No, it sounds like aGEATCA, so you've created a great innovation inthe world of sports, but over the last ten years, besides good bookie. What doyou think the greatest innovation in sports has been the Greateest in Evisi O Pylon camps? Ithink the Pylon Cam and actually my friend my friend, invented that, wherehe's one of the inventors mark, Raley Yeah he's working on a new companycalled live CGI, but he used to work at Hespn and he's one of the holders ofthe patent of the Pilon camps, which I love right and I think our friend KevinRabbit, his company NEP bought them and they kind of run all the pyloncamps now wow with the production and all that yeah, I don't know ther big. Ijust remember, going down to see in their company it's in it's in Baltimore, I'm not sure the details of where itwas, but he was with ESPN when they were working, Ot, yeah yeah. You knowthey have it on the sticks. Now, on the first town markers they have a camera.I love it. I love that kind of know how they're doing it, but, like the othernight, I saw in the saints game where the Guy I'm like where's, that hangle from andit s coming from the bottom of the first down marker, which is crazy. Well,no wonder why attendance is down an a lot of sports INS. I mean you got. Youhave everything you CA, Mostwy want and every angle andless. You want to gothere and pay for a twenty dolar beer. Yeah Right. You know inbe dollarparking yeah I like watching at e home iself. Iprefer I do too. I mean there's a couple things. The exception I think ishockey, I think, is the one sport that's better in person than it is onTV. That's because they play the best music. That's right! That's Awye loud,but really good music. Ninety percent wlate snake yeah. I was just going tosay etes hair metal yea. I know I'm not even that big a hockey fan, but I lovePenguin, F Ingland Games, partly because of that yeah definitely agree.Okay. Last question: If you could be an athlete change places with one athletein the world today, just for a day who would that be Tom, Brady, Ty, Dong fs, for so many ere the saywe're the same age, and I can I wake up with Achs and pains having done nothing.You know physically. I don't Ei'm with you, I wake up with ACS and pans too.Well, you have a good reason. I N T, don't know I don't he looks it's am helooks younger every time. You see him in the steelers game, the other night.He looked about twenty six, I mean that's what happens when you grind upplants and drink them every day, eahi sleep in Oxygen Chambers, Yeah Yeah.The other thing I would by the other one I would probably the close secondwould be Lebron James, because I would...

...like to know what it would be like tobe that big and athletic. So No eqa driver doing two hundred twenty fivemiles an hour round the track. No DFIIEY Watbout, you DAYWHO's, yours, see I'd like to go back in time, I'msort of like a like. You want to be Wilt Chamberlayn. Well that also for anumber of reasons: Thas Yeahon, but similarly Mickey Mantl, I thinkmickiannal would been in his prime see I would be one o more be like Bab Ruthjust because he smoked and drank and ate and stily it Ome runs. I thinkMickey mannel did the same, but he was thirty pounds, less yeah yea, you know, but ats they were friendswith the writers and you coul get away with anything yeah exactly. They cameover to your. How like how many writers we've interviewed some some writers,Wih parents, were writers and said that all the players just come to theirhouse to eat dinner and things, and I'm like that, would never happen today.Now you know it's such an advessarial relationship right right, not back inthe day. All right. We appreciate Tony thanks for being on the show. Thank youtoi guys, thanks for Havng M, appreciated, take care by hey. We wantto thank you for Joiing US Today on Hutdl up with Guss, where we talked toa wide range of guests about how sports shape to life. As always, I'm joined bymy great friend and Cohouse Dave Hager, and we want you to be able to follow uson all of our social media at Howdl up with Gus, and we really appreciate youand thank you for your time and listening to our podcast.

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