Huddle Up with Gus
Huddle Up with Gus

Episode · 2 years ago

Nik Bonaddio

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Nik Bonaddio is the CPO of FanDuel, CEO of numberFire, and former contestant on "Who Wants to Be A Millionaire?". Want to get ahead in your sports betting this season? Nik breaks down how analytics and statistics give you an edge with FanDuel. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Introducing the capital one Walmart rewards card earn, unlimited five percent back on everything you buy at Walmart Online. It's the perfect card for all your families. Hints this holiday season, like five percent back on the Air Friar Grandpa told you about when he fell asleep in his chair. Fry and he's Haying, or five percent back on the laptop your sister had, Caroler sing teary. The capital one Walmart rewards card orn unlimited rewards, including five percent back at Walmart online. What's in your wallet terms? An exclusions apply. Capital one gun a right dave foots up. How you doing today? Hey, guys, good, thanks. Um. Today's episode is a person. You know, we're both been into these data and analytics for the pirates. Yeah, we like data and analytics for how fastball. He's a stadium. You know how many strikeouts fires have every day? Yeah, they're right. Swing it bad pitch ratio from Mark Right. Yeah, right. But there's a gentleman who'll be coming on. He grew up kind of north side, went to NA, ended up going to Carnegie Mellon, but he is like a data and analytics Guru. He's a genius when it comes to that. Just are a few minutes with him. That was pretty evident right off the bat. And it's interesting because he's always loved sports. He always loved the numbers, you know, that data side of sports and analyzing it. And so then he graduates from college and he's like, okay, what am I going to do? And he hadn't, I always had an idea in the back of his mind of what company he would start if he could right. So, you know, it's crazy, is what he got picked to go on to who wants to be a millionaire. What I think is interesting is the process and how that happened, right. It wasn't immediate. It wasn't immediate and it was on a touchtone phone, answering questions, five questions, pressing the buttons and then hanging up and then nine months later getting a call saying you're on, right, and you're on. So he goes on who wants to be a millionaire, has a couple lifelines and all that, like everybody knows. The show, wins a hundred grand, says that's it, I'm taking it, and started his company number fire. Yeah, well, he had that. He had the number he needed to win dollarwise, in order to create his company right, and he didn't risk answering the question, getting it wrong and falling under that number. So he pulled away, took the check, started a company. Now he's flying high on it. Yeah, well, and so he starts number fire right, doing what he loves to do, Dat analytics on sports, all kind of sports, and so lo and behold, who buys them? Vandel Fan Oh so sells his company, the FANDEL becomes a chief product officer at Fandel and the rest is history. And so Nick Buonadeo is going to be our guest today and I think it's going to be pretty interesting for us to hear maybe a I mean it's a higher level data analytics and what we think we know it's not. The stuff they track is stuff you can't even imagine is tracked. Yes, but the exciting about fandels. Now you can wager in Pennsylvania. I know they have some specials going out for the pit Penn State game and you know, you hear a lot of Fandel on the radio now, a lot of Fandel, and the crazy thing is that you can't do sports betting, you know, Ohio, but you can do it in Pennsylvania. And they have to figure out if where you are, yeah, hearing here. He's going to explain out of little hearing the how they do that. Exactly right, I know. So we're excited to have nick jump in the huddle with us today here on how tole up with gusts. So welcome in to the huddle, Nick Buonadeo. All right, Dave, today we have nick. Nick is the chief product offs are at Fandel but before that he has a great, great story. He's from local here in Pittsburgh, grew up in Wexford. It was on who wants to be a millionaire and I can't wait to hear that story. And then from that he started his own company. He might be one of the smartest guests. We've had one too, and definitely, definitely way smart than you and I can buy. And I can guarantee this. Patrick's up there. Yeah, I harvard. I don't know, Carnai Melon Harvard. Yeah, but welcome to the show. Thank you so much. Yes, appreciate it. So I don't want to mess your last name up, so let's say correctly. Yeah, it's Bond Ado so ada. The second to use with those everyone off. I think there must have been a typo and Ellis Island. I must what. Yeah, you're right, but yeah, it's bond a deal Bonado. So you know people mess my name up. Yeah, time they spelled it wrong on my pro bowlders. So I understand when people don't say it's right way and it's sometimes it urts, kind of the Brett far of thing, faverc. But Yeah, Y, yeah,...

...so, so, nick, what we really do in the show? We want to get to the crux of how you fell in love with sports, because we know you're in the whole other side of the sports room now where you're the analytics. You're figuring out how to how to help people understand the game in a different way. So what was that love of sports we're did that start for you? Yeah, I mean you know, as you said, I grew up in Pittsburgh and so when you grow up in Pittsburgh it's impossible not to be a penguins fan. Is Dealers fans just a part of the culture here, and so I was just one of those kids growing up that I'd come home from school just immediately go outside. I was lucky enough to live in a neighborhood there was a bunch of kids my age and so, you know, I don't know if kids they still do this, but I know we just would go out and if it's in the fall, we play football, and it's in the spring, we play baseball and basketball and hockey and everything. So I was just always sort of like a hyperactive kid and they my mom just boot me out of the house be like Oh, I go do something, and so just sports is always been sort of, you know, one of my hobbies. I had to joke around a lot of my office that, you know, I really in life only really love two things. The first is my wife and the second of sports, and so it's very important to get that that order correct right. Oh, yeah, we understand. It was really one of my life now pretty much just as long as I can remember. So when you would go out with those kids in the neighborhood, I mean to me that was like those are still some of my fondest me. Absolutely, but those times teach you so much about sport and life. Yeah, general, because there was no coaches, there's no parents saying get up and all that, and you get knocked down a lot. Yeah, absolutely, I think like it teaches a lot about perseverance for sure, but it really teaches you about about leadership and sort of teamwork. You know, I think you know, as I've moved forward to my professional life, you know I've had to work with, you know, my company, different people from different walks of life, whether the marketers or whether their business people or whether they're, you know, external third parties that we work with. You know, sports teaches so much about teamwork in about how to communicate and how to lead teams that, you know, when I see resumes of people who come in who have sports backgrounds, I'm immediately attracted to that because those candidates I know will have the ability to like really bring teams together well. Also, you know, the playing on the backyard with your friends. You learn how to work out problem. Sure, it's just you guys, there's no umpires. Yeah, parents, yeah, and that I think it's an important aspect that a lot of people are no longer really experienced absolutely when they're not yeah, especially here in Pittsburgh, you know, when the weather is cold, you know like getting a little bit tough to you know, playing that snow football or, you know, playing some hockey and in some pretty girls weather like you kind of get a little bit some that Western PA toughness. Yeah, and you didn't want to be the kid not to go out because, no, no, right, you had to go out, like if you were that kid, like oh well, yeah, then they get snowballs that thrown in your house. and well, someone had to play goalie and someone had to play third base and you know, like I mighta let my team down. So we can my bought outside. Well, I want to ask Dick too, because we have a street going of people of gas that have played whiffle balls. Oh Yeah, kids, you, you, we love, will huge. I mean like those things you can get like a curve that goes like five feet to the laughter. You can really working. Y's so fun. Dave claims that he has a ball that can drop from twelve to six. Okay, all right, seeing yet. So well, yeah, we did. We you were supposed to bring that. Today we're going to be playing in our studio. We're gonna have a special whiffleball, special and I can prove it. We're dead. Been learned with the ball batting cage, well, a wiffleball batting cage. Yeah, yeah, some of the pirates and like just buckle their knees like yeah, Josh Bell in here, my catching in here and just bring them up right, right, yeah, exactly, I'm really out. Yeah, yeah, wouldn't you just get Josh Bell? I think the ball can like even the playing field. Yeah, you know, definitely. What's that most definitely. So, what's your first memory that you had, because you talked about you went get out with all your friends. What was your first memory of something that was actually you know, we're your parents. Did you gotta go play this and you know that was at first. What was that first sport for you were yeah, play for me, yeah, it was. It was probably probably soccer because, like you know, you soccer here is pretty big. You know, I think you know my parents were was a little worried about football because, like I was always like kind of on the small side. So way I'm six five now, I'm on the on the bigger side and I was definitely a late bloomer relative towards side, and so my parents were always worried about tackle football. Again, you know how Western Pa it's kind of right the tumble a little bit. So definitely the most organized sport I played with soccer. But if I point to a sport that I played the most like kind of backyard. It was actually hockey because I grew up in the Marylemiu era and so right you know, Marylymiu, late s the ladies or my s, was like the coolest person in Pittsburgh. He was like every kid wanted to Mary Lemiu R and so more than any of the sport as far as how much I played, was actually hockey, but it definitely more organized. One was soccer and then when I got in high school and playing soccer is playing tennis in the spring. And you know, I always tell a story, so I again I was on the small side. You know. I went to Na up in the BURBS and you know, between the the summer, between my junior and seniors of high school, I basically shot up from like five eight to like six four, six five, just like that. And I come back for a four fall that year and all of a sudden the volleyball coach wants to talk to me. All of a Sud a basketball coach as a talking yeah, like you...

...list, I tried out last year and you told me like hey, good hustle kid, like you know it's not going to work out, but you know, you know, yeah, keep practicing and it like like I couldn't get the time of day from those guys. Now all of a sudden, like you know, a basketball coaches like hey, you know, try out our Monday, like right, sure, you're there. I'm like all right, fine, whatever. But was too probably a couple double looks maybe. I don't know. See, like you know, I was a nerder all the way through. So like I was playing the long game of like, you know what, like one of these days, like being a nerd is going to work out to my advantage. Right, high school, isn't that time? All right, but you know, I'll just play the long game here. Well, he'll been being a smaller nerd, yeah, rather than shorter. Yeah, the way. Yeah. So so the when did you get in track? Like I know that devil. I actually was until college. So, you know, at seem you know, obviously seeing me was not exactly do you want sports, but you know, it was one of those things where I was in a fraternity and a couple of my fraternity blowers on the track team and the coach had an intramural track meet to sort of like saying for people who aren't in the track team, come out and kind of experience track and whatever, and my fraternity kind of formed a track team and we went to go do it and, you know, I showed up and I wont like four or five events. I want the hundred, I want the two hundred. I won the long jump and the track coach comes over to me it's like, yeah, you should probably join the chant and so yeah, so I ended up joined the team. A couple years later I was an all American and track. That's awesome. And so yeah, it was. It was funny like because, you know, I didn't run in high school, but all the sports that I played kind of turned me into this kind of general athlete. It turns out that, like you know, track was there's one sport I was naturally drawn to because of all the different sports I played growing up. What fraternity were you in? I was in capital to row wow, but I saw on Wikipedia that you were pike and they were just like kind of across the way from my sad series. Yes, so I have a like so pike at Alpha at Tulsa. They were kind of failing. Okay, yeah, and so they came to the football team, not the whole team, but some of us, and they said Hey, we need help. Will you guys help us out, come to our parties, come to do everything, when we'll just make you members? Yeah, right. So now they made us a member and we would go to the parties and we, you know, then all of a sudden their memberships. Yeah, we really didn't do a lot. I still get all the letters from them. Like you know, I'm like now they say I'm like one of the pikes that everybody know. You're they no, well, I'm not paid. Yeah, it's absolutely crazy, but it's good. It's a good thing. Well, I school like seem you. You know, it's not the kind of school with a party just kind of comes to you, right, you have to sort of seek it out because again, the roll in ards to see him. Or so it was one of those things where, like if you wanted to have any kind of regularly normal social life, that's kind of what you had to do in a school. They see you, and so I would never have thought myself as being a fraternity guy. And because just you think of Animal House, you think of all those stories, say that wasn't me, but that out of school like seeing me, it actually was, because that was the only way you could have somewhat of a normal college social life. Otherwise I'd be just sitting in the dorms playing, you know, counterstruggled layers right, right when you were in high school. You know, you talk about your love of sport. Yeah, but we know that you know, you're big into the analytics, term in the numbers of the game. Yep. How did it start for you in high school? Yeah, so you know my dad, and we were talking about this now, my dad work for PPG for like forty, fifty years and they so he's like sort of an old school nerd, like way before you let back in the slide rule days, right, and you know he was always keen to have computers around the house because he's sort of foresaw that computers were the way that it was going to Oh, and I always had a natural aptitude for math or something that I was attracted to. But you know, when I started looking at things like statistics, I used to obsessively track like batting averages and look back in ninety four when John Olrude was about to bat for a hundred, he was batting, you know, just just tracking that and kind of getting understanding of numbers and just, you know, like I always thought, you know, that that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to work in math and really only two jobs I ever wanted out of life was either to be a stockbroker or to do something in sports and, you know, being a computer guy. And like right around the time the Internet happened, I was like, Geez, this is amazing. There's so much more stats I could look at and I was always just kind of naturally drawn to it. What's interesting about sports is that it's such a rich data set. Everything that happens, every rebound, every goal, every home ron is meticulously tracked. It's it's in a database somewhere and I always just wanted to like take a look at that data and try to, you know, figure out if I'm going to have an argument with one of my friends around who's better, Michael Jordan or Lebron James, I don't want to just say like well, Lebron James is better because he dunks, you know, like you know, that's a very quality of argument. Like then, if the numbers are there, like there's got to be some way I could dig into it and try to figure out, like why is that Lermon James is better? You can serve it. Yeah, and so, like I was just always fascinated by that because it was like the like the combining of two things I really liked. I really like math, I really like computers and I love the sports and it's just like seem such to gaming. Right. So, and been around a long time all these things day, but I still talk about techmo and it's super technical. Oh yeah, right. So, did you play a lot of that, because they had some stats? Yeah, Oh, yeah, yeah, like, and now it's like crazy with the turrets are. Oh yeah, like, you know, if I go back and look at like my second genesis and Anteno back in the day, like I didn't play any like Zelder, I think that it was always an MBA jam. It was techno Super Bowl mad and you know,...

Oh yeah, for sure, VOE Jackson was a Bo Jack was a ninety nine, like impossible, whatever. Yeah, it's just just that's sweep. Would you're gone amazing. Yeah, just gave it it was like when I coach Zeki Elliott and yeah, school and as that was like my bow j actually just give it to Zeke and like head score three times and then when you let her as playing. My friends actually give me like a bunch of CRAPP of this sometimes. He was like, if I were to play Madden, it's not actually playing mad and that I like so much. It's the franchise mode. I like signing players, I like trades, like I like making the rosters because they the game itself is fine, but like it's really for me more about like, you know, how do I figure out how to make the Best Tradeles? So, like it's almost like being at GM a little bit. Like that's actually more what I'm interested in versus the actual game itself. So, yeah, this, you know. I I I love playing mad in those kind of games, like n see a football, that old game. Like I still love recruiting game itself. Like was okay, fine, whatever, but like I wanted to turn pit rightway. Thirty seven time national champion. Good luck with that one. Yeah, no, I was similar and now, I think after but now we're going back again to technobowl days. But you could comply. There was at the end. You could compile, compile com blues rosters. I think I would play, you know, I'd do this roster by super roster, but then once someone scored on me. That I think I'd start over there, you know, because I wanted to when to make it perfect. Yeah, like how did this happen? Yeah, I drum lean a defensive tackle. Like right, Drum Brown, that happen. You know, some lane, he pray would have been. Even my boys do that too, because they played, I mean their in college and don't play mad and on that. Now their favorite thing is to recruit, like they can trade players. I get new ones, they can work towards getting a better player and all that. And then they make these these crazy teams and go out and play and I go, why don't you guys go on? I don't even know what twitch I think. Yeah, right, that that everybody can watch it. Now. We don't care about that. We play with yeah, other yeah, but it's a great way for them to stay connected. Sure, because that's true all over the OH. Yeah, and, like you know, I mean to go online look at like fantasy sports, like what fandel does with d fast and sports betting. There's so many opportunities for people to interact with sports and just so like you dig into the research and dig into the numbers, like you know, there's probably so many more people like me now than there were even five years ago, ten years ago. It's just like everyone's kind of turned into this you know, kind of nate silvery, you know, like sports math, because you know it's you know, we look at fantasy sports and look at you look like dfs and betting like it encourages that kind of thinking, encourages you not to just be like, Oh, well, you know, all star been this week because Ben is awesome. I like no, like all star been this week because, you know, maybe the playing the bangles and the bangles have a pretty weak past defense. And no, no, really susceptible to throw down and been passes a lot on throw down like you know it. You know, it's sort of open up the veil of sports. I think a lot of people typically thought that what happens in a sports matches relatively random. Things just happen, but they don't just happen. There's inherent bices that you know, coordinators have, that teams have, that coaches have, that you know you only going to get to really understand once you dig into the numbers. With lately and spring of Ben then in the state of Ohio it's his record. In the state of Ohio it's like forty two and two, something like that. You know, really, that's remember that. Yeah, I won't remember. Yeah, I know you, but you remind me. Well, yeah, let you know. Some of my stuff actually isn't all that useful because, like you know, you'll always hear some people say like well, you know, the the bengals are not seven and O and Dome Games where it's thirty two degrees are less outside, you know, three days or less after a rain like like, like, there's some things which are so arcane that they're actually not all that predictive, right, as you kind of have to take it a little bit with a Gran assaults that times. But it is interesting just the amount of data that's available. You know, where I think a lot of that started was when Campa Bay always used to have to go up to Green Bay and play right and they would never win because they just yeah, one way. They're cold weather. It just it's it just does something to you when you practice in warm and then all of a sudden you're in like thirty degrees right, you're just so much colder and it's just such a different way, like a turf to grass. I mean, look at the team like the saints. So the Falcons. I mean, you know, I don't know as for sure. I have to go look into it, but like I have to think that their record on on turf is probably like, you know, six hundred, fifty, seven hundred, but on grass it's fellably those at the five hundred because it slows a team down, they can't do the things that usually do, and that's stuff is real and you know it's it's only recently that people have the ability from a data perspective to really dig into that stuff. Right. Like also another big one, and I don't know if this is true or not, but you always hear about the West because teams ARF playing one o'clock game in the east. I don't know what the breakdown is there, if that's if that's just like a myth or thought, or if there's really evidence for someone in the middle. I mean, like you look at you like they have the London Games, like those games always super low quality, right. Yeah, because travel does impact what you changes your sleep, it changes you're sort of out of your rhythm. Yeah, you don't go this, they don't do the things you do. Prepare Yourself. I'm sure it's real, but like it's just a matter of like is it's so real that you know, it's spurs you to go take an action on that. Like you know. That's where the line is. I mean, what...

...happens on the team's too? It's not so much the Timezon, sure. I mean you have to look at the team. It's kind of like going back in some of the stats you're talking about earlier. You're digging into, you know, some past results that no one who's playing that day was barely even born. When you're still looking at still you're still pulling stats from. Sure, yeah, that's kind of a week. I don't know. Yeah, like you know, football, from an analygics perspective, is actually the hardest of the major four sports. One because there's smaller sample size. There's only sixteen games of season versus hundred sixty two in baseball. So it's a sample size problem. And also the sport footballs changed so much that like it's very difficult to compare like the game in the s of the s two metals rule changes really right back and so like it's it's hard to sort of like, you know, if you've got a data point from like the s they're trying to use to you know, use as a data point to predict what's going to happen. Now it's that signals a little bit weak, and so baseball, it's easier, basketball teasier. Football is the hardest. But you know, which is basically why I like you look at like baseball. Baseball was the precursor to all this, you know, the David Atletics people and the moneyball types, all the way back in sort of mad s. That was a while ago. The basketball is almost a hundred percent atle space. You look at the rockets with Darrel Morey, very, very unt like space. And football is this, you know, definitely behind the other sports because, you know, like it's a little bit, you know, kind of old school mentality, like and I've had discussions with different teams where they kind of looked to me like, you know, who's this nerd, like you know, like you never played football, like you know, how can you come in here and tell me how I should run my team or who I should draft or what plays I should call? And so there is a little bit of renaissance in the football world, but it is definitely changing, I think. I think with now with football, you know, they're putting Urfi details and UN tracking all that data. Yep, that down to minutia. Yeah, of like every movement. But the thing is is that I think they've collected it for so long now they don't really know how to use it. Yeah, you know, they haven't released it the NFL and so that's really hard for for them to they don't know how to use it and they don't just want to release it because it's not only if, let's say, you have an rfid tag on a defensive end, right, it's not necessarily, let's say that he got one sack, but he had, you know, how many times was he closest to the quarterback in that whole game? You know, compared to everybody else, or you know, or you know tackles, you know, because there's stats, like, you know there's a tackle, there's surf laws and all that, but he might have been right there at the ball every time all game. So, sir, productivity was high. Yep, just but it wasn't in this the normal stats that you've sure. Yeah, you know, there's a sort of common mats in the data world, which is garbage and garbage out, which is like, if their quality every data isn't very high, then the quality of the analysts, the analysis of that dat it won't be very high. And so you know, yeah, like there probably is a lot of day to their collecting, but whether that's useful date as a different story. Like you know, just because you have some information doesn't mean it is going to ultimately be predictive of what you want. And so you know, I don't think in football you'll have a revolution like you had a basketball again, like look at the rockets, like all they do is shoot threes. Is Either dunks are threes, dunks or threes. And you know, you won't see a team like dramatically change around, like in suddenly start passing the ball ninety percent of the time like NFL. Won't have that change because that's probably getting too far away. But like you will see them like going on fourth down more. You will see them, you know, making small adjustments to like maybe go to water sets more like. So it's the joy incremental changes. I don't think the game itself will dramatically change and I think you'll really see a change the way people evaluate players for drafting and scouting purposes. I think that's really where a lot of analytics is most useful for NFL. So let's go back, all right. So you go to Carnegie Mill and, Yep, you were there for years. Yep, five years, five years. Okay, so five years. Then after Carnegie Mellen, where did you end up? Yes, I went out to Silicon Valley. You know, like any sort of tech person, you have this the stars in your eyes about Silicon Valley. So I went out to California where for Yahoo for about two years, and then a couple of my friends from CEMU had a start up that I joined called Spun Cell, and I was there for three years. But then, you know, like you know, my family's on the East Coast and a lot of my friends were on the east coast. When you do computer science sometimes you have a segment of people who go on Wall Street instead of going on Tach. So I had a bunch of friends who were on all street and you know, like I'm east coast, got my family's these coat so I moved to New York about a decade ago and I've lived in Brooklyn ever since. But you know, I've always been the entrepreneurial type. You know, back when I was a kid, I was the kid who had the lemonade stands I was the kid, you know, like that. That's who I was. And so, you know, even back when I was working at Yahoo, my first job at a school, I was like, Jesus, is too big. Like you, this is like, you know, just to cumbersome, it's to sort of corporative for me, and so I always had in my head that I wanted to start my own company because, you know, like you know right now, and if you guys who on audio can see this, I'm just wearing a t shirt and jeans. I'm not particularly formal guy, and so I never wanted to sort of like wake up, buy an alarm and wear a suit and get in the office at nine like that was really never me. So I always knew I wanted to start a company, but, you know, I never really had the resources to do it until I was on. I wants to be a billionaire. You tell us about that. Yeah, but what's that whole process of applying for...

...the show? Okay, so so what happened was again me being a younger, I used to read the pisser post is at every single day online, not like the paper version, right, just to kind of like, you know, get a sense what was going on back home now, I was reading an article and like somewhere the bombs article there was a little blurb that said, oh by the way, like who wants to be a millionaire's coming back on the air. If you want to try out for the show, call this number. And I was like okay, well, I'm pretty good a trivia. I'll call this number. And it wasn't like an audition or anything like that. It was basically you call in and it's like a like a quiz, and so we'll ask you like, you know, put these Michael Jackson albums in order from latest to to earliest, and you're like, okay, one would be thriller and two would be bad and whatever, and you use the touch tone to answer the question. And so I answered five questions. I guess I got them right there, like congratulations, like no, you know, like leave your name and number and if you're selected to be on the show, we'll we'll let you know. I'm okay, cool, whatever. And so like nine months later, it was like a pretty long amount of time. I remember I was sitting at my desk at the at the place I was working in the time and I get this number from like a call from number I and recognized it was like, you know, to Wull one, blah, blah, blah, Blah Blah, and normally that happens, I don't answer it because it's like it usually spam or something like that. But like I don't know what made me answer it. I was like are you don't want like this could be something important. I answered it and they're like, you know, pick up the phone, like hi, this is so and so from ABC, like you've been selected to be on the show, and I'm like, I almost forgot about it. I was like like solely. Yeah, I was like, what do you mean? There's like okay, well, you're going to be on who wants to be a millionaire? Tell us what date you like to come in if you're taping, and so I picked it's actually really enough. It's pretty close. I think tomorrow is the ten year anniversary of the taping, or maybe the ten year anniversary of when it was are, but like it was about a decade ago. And Yeah, like I just showed up to the studio and they put me into makeup and so that was it was not like pre interviews. They didn't know we have to send in a video or like you know that shows kind of like jeopardy and that, like they kind of just wanted smart people, but like they didn't necessarily want someone like who was like Super Zuberans. Yeah, like they kind of just wanted to see, because what's best for them as someone winning a million dollars, like that's the best marketing they can do, and so I think they just basically just wanted to get some smart people in there. So you so you went in? Whether it was pretty soon after that? Yeah, fall, yeah, maybe like two weeks or three weeks. And so you get on the set and the like is it. Regis was here, was a regal as reasons, and like we just like five two on it ever met reg. So, you know, they basically like the the coole things they told me was like I don't look at the camera or like like don't look at the lights. I just kind of stay in the moment. But whenever we just stands up, let him stand up first, because you're gonna Tower over him. So like you just just like make sure you got like the you know, like your sensitive of that, right. It's going to look weird on camera. That's funny. So you have to give a lifeline. Yeah, right. So who's your lifeline? One of my buddies from college from call. Yeah, and they also had a celebrity phone, a friend who was Gwen Eiffel, who was political commentator for a PBS right. And I asked the audience once on a question but ended up walking away with a hundred thousand dollars, which was at what was your question? I had to go remember it was. It was something about the movie endless love, like is like, like basically, it was like what was the protagonist named for the movie endless love? And I was like that movie came out like four years where I was born. That's so, like you ember brook shields and right, yeah, I don't know, as the blond guy. Yeah, Chris, Chrispher Akins or something, I don't know, no idea. You didn't saw that. I should have been your life. Yeah, and I saw the question. I was like, okay, I don't know that. Like so, like I wasn't going to guess. I like, you know, I'll just kind of take my money and walk away. But when I got into the seat, like I was like all right, well, you know, I knew what I wanted to do with the money. I wanted to start a company if I could, and the company I wanted to start was number four. I had the idea already and you know, I kind of just reason that for me to kind of get the product out there, to kind of launch it, I would need about a year's worth of my time and for me to go quit my job and basically maintain living expenses in New York City for a year. I would need to win about Fiftyzero for me to feel comfortable doing that. And taxes, that's actually win a hundred thousand dollars. Yeah, it's tax the fifty percent. So once I got to a hundred thousand, like you can actually see it on the table, you could see me just like let out this huge exhale. You knew you're there, because I knew, no matter what happened, like regardless of whether the question, I knew the next question or not. I was at already there. Drew be there. So when I saw the question and I didn't know it, I was like whatever, like I'm just going to watch. Do you have any any lifelines left? Now look like I had it down to fifty, meaning like it was either a or C or B or Dal. I had it, like like I knew it wasn't two of them. Yeah, I wasn't going to guess it was. Yeah, it was way too much for a risk. And so yeah, so I want the hundred thousand dollars. And I basically the very next day, walked into my job and like talk to my boss said look, you know, like I like it here, but you know, I got to go. Like, you know, there's only you know, I would equivocate being on the show to b basically like logging into your...

...account one day and all of a sudden there's a hundred thousand dollars. I wasn't there yet, right, but like nope. Yeah, I remember in Opoly they'd their card like the bank error in your favor, right. That's basically what that don't like. Yeah, how quickly did they pay? I got the check, like a physical check, like I think a couple days later. Well, and it was for the full hundred thousand dollars. So I talked to an account in and they like, you got to pay taxes on that. So like, don't don't go spending a hundred thousand dollars because you're going to have to. So like I kind of like, you know, like you know, breathe a little bit. My family wanted me to come back home to Pittsburgh and put down a mortgage and buy a house and all that. I'm like, you know, because, so, how long were you thinking of number fire before? I've had that idea pretty much all my life really, because I always wanted to work in sports and always want to work in tech. And you know what always sort of frustrated me about sports, and this is like not a knock on the just eve Mayson as this escape basis of the world, but you know, when you watch a sports center or you're reading advice about fantasy sports, so much of that advice is qualitative. It's like, Hey, I think the cowboys are going to do that, I think that Aaron Rodgers is going to do that, and you know, for me that just didn't make sense because if you have all this information available, why wouldn't you go and use that information to kind of like try to figure out things? And you know, so it's something I always wanted to do. And you know, whether you're just a steelers fan and wants to know something interesting about Ben Roethlisberger, whether you're a coach who wants to know you know what some of the opposing teams tendencies are, whether you're a fantasy sports player once now do I pick a or b? You know, all that stuff is basically a data driven decision, and so I wanted to build out a system which allowed me to kind of, you know, unlock the mysteries of what's going on, because, you know, maybe twenty years ago a company like number fire wouldn't have been possible because the computing power wasn't there to go and do to things I need to do. But you know, I was like at the right time where, you know, cloud computing was coming available and great computing was coming available, and so it was sort of like a lot of things were coming together and I was like I got to do this now or else I'm going to go crazy. So yeah, I just I just kind of went for it and it worked out. So I like the name number fire also, so that's a great story about that. So I didn't know what to name it, and so what I did is I basically wrote a script on computer where I matched up a group of prefixes like number and stat and, you know like math, and then a bunch of suffixes like fire and eant and you know, like blood, these very like docom there. Yeah, right. And so the script basically pair it up one of the prefixes and one of the suffixes and then made a query out to see if the doccom version was available. And so out of all those permutations, the onlycom that was available was number firecom. That's the only one that's available. And I was like, I actually kind of like that name. It kind of it's pretty cool. So strongly, yeah, it worked out. It worked out. You know what if your numbers are on fire your yeah, I'm usually doing pretty good. Yeah, right, with a logo we have is like basically like it like a like a football that's on fire. It was like, I like that logo. Probably cost me five dollars. I got like a clip bar of a football and a clip bart of like a flame. It just kind of put in the gas. It wasn't a hockey. Yeah. Well, I mean, like we do have a couple different versions of it like it. We so call it number fire, but like on our hockey section it's like a hockey pock that's like this flaming trail. So you start number fire. Who's the first person you called to join you? The very first person I called is the guy who's still with me, is my chief Amilist, him, Keith Goldner. Keith Goldener is even more of a mathnter than I am and he's not gonna be offended by say that. You probably laugh when you crazy. You know, he was right out of northwestern and had in turn for, I think, the seers and and intern for ESPN and you know, he was really, really ahead of the game or about analytics. And you know, I think he turned down a job with the eagles to come work for me because, you know, I think you know, when you work in the field of analytics, you could work for one team and like all your work sort of constrained inside of this little box, or you can, you know, kind of like work for coming like my and and try to influence the entire industry. And so, you know, he took a pretty big risk, because it's not at the time we were just a like just new. It was just me. We didn't have an office yet, we didn't have any VC financing, we didn't have a business model, we didn't have any of that. But I guess I'm a pretty good salesman. So right, yeah, he was the first one and that him a couple iron cities and see, yeah, yeah, yeah, bottom like a Brian Westbuck Jersey, and it's kind of like all right, let me let's go to work. So it's pretty interesting number fire with all the ANA lake. So when you guys grab that analy it's already been produced for you and you just putting it in right. So you're taking it from the team's and stead yeah thing. So sort of like way described it as like what we're getting in is basically just the raw information, and so we're ingesting play by play information, we're ingesting basic statistics and we're creating is derivatives of those statistics. And so the main example I use is we use a in football. We use statistic called expected points. What expected points basically means is, let's imagine two scenarios. You got one scenario where Gustfarat, the quarterback, throws for a fifteen...

...yards on a three and twenty, and then you got another scenario where gus for out, the quarterback, throws for three yards on a third and one. Now in the first scenario you threw for fifteen yards. On paper that looks so much more impressive that going for three yards. But in the second scenario, because we was third in one, you had a first down conversion and therefore you increased your team's chances of continuing the drive and scoring points. And so if all you're looking at is the numbers, you're going to think all that fifteen yard play, it was more important, but actually the three year player was more important. And so you know, that's an example of how just straight numbers is it going to tell you the context of what's happening. And so when you use expected points at any point in a drive, you know you've got a certain amount of probability that you're going to score a field goal or score a touchdown, in whatever. And so as your team gets closer to closer to the end zone, your expected points goes up. And so expected points allows you to understand, you know, how a certain player influences his team's opportunity to score points and, by extension, win the game. And so you know there are a lot of players in the NFL who may have like five thousand passing yards but actually have low expected points because those passing yards came in garbage time or they they came on third in twenty year ends. Of that feel goals, right, right. So, you know, a better way of looking at performances. No, not so much to five thousand yards, but how did this player impact his team's chances of winning? And it's scoring points, and so, you know, will ingest a lot of the very basic information, but we'll go through our data systems, are models, and spit out these more advanced statistics. So and baseball it's there's a difference between batting average and ops or slugging or Wolba, and so we're basically almost inventing statistics that help us kind of understand things in the way, you know, we choose to think about them. Has that been hard for you to watch the pirates and those? Yeah, I mean, like you know, it's definitely frustrating. Like literally last night there was a tweet from the gym of the mets and the end and the GM said basically like the decisions we make. You know, Ninety five percent of the time the analys guys think we're doing the wrong thing, but you know, we're professionals and we're going to shoot from the God and we're going to like and like. It tries me crazy see stuff like that because like, like analyks, isn't magic? Look like like what, I'm making this stuff up, like like this is what the numbers say and like, you know, I understand the reticence of like, you know, if I'm a GM I won't want some analys guy to tell me like everything you're doing is wrong, you have to do it this way. But, you know, to just ignore the numbers and ignore the data and goes strictly from the Gut. Like you wouldn't do that in any other industry. Right, if I went, like to Wall Street and said I'm going to go buy apple because, you know, wow, that blue iphone looks really cool, like I'd get left out of the room. Yeah, like like, you know, like in a power planet, it's like, well, I think we should increase the power because, you know, gee's like, you know, a lot of people use in the reses these days, like like, like that's not acceptable to make a decision that way, but for some reason in sports it is. Yeah, we've done it this way forever. Yeah, not gonna Chan. You know, it comes down to. Well, we played you. Yeah, yeah, we know. All right. Yeah, like, you know, go back to computer lab. We won championships before. Yeah, nobody was doing analytics bat and when you did, yeah, might have been totally different game if there was realytics. And there's so fifties and sixties. So if you have like like a football teamers, fifty three players, Yep, do you take individual stats, like faster random for it? Certain, and they give each player? Yeah, and kind of their own analytics. And then that way, because, David, I've talked about this that if your team you want to give you want to give the GA team a chance to win. CHIRP, like it showed on Fanduel, that that Dave and day mentioned this, that you guys are predicting like some of the outcomes already whole way through the season Yip of the Games. Yeah, but what about how does that change when a player gets hurt? Oh, yeah, so like so, you know, let's say that I was predicting the steelers to win ten wins this year. Well, James Conner gets hurt, then you like move in Jailn Samuels. By moving in Jailn Samuel's LE, you're change around the play calls week spect time to run. You change around the expected efficiency on those play calls, and so there is an adjustment that gets made. Like you know, it's there's a mathematical formula to it, because you're going from one asset that has a certain amount of fency to another one. So that might adjust it down from ten to eight point five. So there are method always we're doing that. But yeah, it's you know, it's tough because if there's so many moving parts, right football has to be the toughest. Well, by far. Yeah, I mean, you know, one of the things that I think in football is historically difficult to do is, you know, it's easy to do analytics for skill players like quarterbacks, wide receivers, running backs. It's hard to do it for like a left guard. Yeah, because how do you do this? Yeah, you know, you have to combine a little bit of qualitative with it, you know. So you have the the quantitative in that, you know, the right guard pulled around on and James Conner ran for four yards, and so I have to assign some of that play success to the right guard. But you do...

...have to look at tape a little bit to say, all right, you know, knowing that the successful play happened, if I look at the tape, did the right guard do what he was supposed to do and, if so, then okay, give him the credit for it. If not, then maybe you only give a half credit. So there is a level of qualitative to it that doesn't really exist in the other sports. And so but if you had the numbers from the RFID tags, you wouldn't even need to watch Chirp because you just have data. Yeah, it would be in number for sure. You can say, you know, right guard is, yeah, seventy six, and then we're going to watch his exactly right, his everything that he does. Oh, Suden, there's a blitz's supposed to pick up a middle lineback. Now that I gotta sex. So you know, yeah, how do you score that? Yeah, like the the main problem in like, you know, I should say like I've been out of the game for a couple of years because, like, you know, not like hit been a CPO or Fandel, like I've got a hundred things to worry about. And so, you know, the analytics guys on my team are the ones that are probably more in depth than I am. So, you know, I I've lost my fastball a little bit. You know, the main problem with you, R if I do stuff for that's yeah, but part for the cool John. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, like with the RFID stuff, like you're tracking that stuff on like a second by second basis, and so in a given game of football will you might get a terribyte a data about that. And so that's a lot of data a process. That's a whole lot of noise and you're trying to find the signal amongst that noise. And so, you know, computing power just almost isn't there yet to be able to come out your head like it might be, but like it's still in early stages. Yeah, and so I think you know, right now the ability to collect data is kind of outpacing the ability to do useful things with that data and that's going to catch off at just Moore's law. But yeah, like when skill player are like non skill players, like guards and Lineman, and you know, when linebackers it's harder than is for skull player. was tough, like hall of fame was like I think Ellen Fanica as a football player, one of the best to ever play. But it's all like what he was really good, you know, I mean either was nothing. I mean like like so it's really easy to put in Pancakes, I guess. Yeah, you know, it's realzy. It's the same thing, like Joe Jakobe. Like all the people who are fans of the Redskins don't understand why Joja Kobe was just a monster of a man, was a great lineman, one of the hog it's not in the hall of fame like people. Yeah, it has been put up so many times I don't know if he can ever go in, which is crazy. Yeah, it's like there's where a smart monk like like what he's done is like very, very clear. It's like receptions, touchdowns, right, exactly, for those linemen and of the Lineman liked even D lineman. Right, you get sacks so that it gives you a statistic that you can follow. Yep, but that's that's pretty interesting stuff like that. Yeah, so will tell us. Tell us now, not from number fire to fan. How did that happen? Yeah, I mean, you know, with the rise of what Fando was doing, when they first started with with daily fantasy sports. You know, daily fantasy sports was kind of, you know, like it still is, you know, somewhat complex to play, like. You know, you have to pick players, you through a line to a salary cap and there's some some strategy that goes into it. And so, you know, with number fire, as we saw that industry emerging, we wanted to build tools to help players play, and so there's kind of like a natural, you know, nice relationship we had with fan dol a draftings at the time. And Yeah, like you know, like one day we got an email from someone who worked for Fandel and said, Hey, you know, we're gonna we want to move in a direction where, you know, we want to signal to our users that we really do want them to win more and to have access to tools and have the best information possible. Would you guys be interested in kind of something more than just kind of like a casual relationship? And I said Yeah, sure, and so we had they ended up perching such up purchasing purchasing us about it befour years ago now, and it's been great. Like you know, most of my team is still there, and a lot of the tools at that you might use on Fandel. Like we built out, you know, different ways of drafting players, different ways of, you know, making life scoring easier. Like a lot of the Ip that we build a number fire just slotted right into what fandel was doing and it's been an amazing. Rhyde. So do you have you ever been approached by a professional team? Oh, yeah, yeah, really excited. Yeah, so we actually done a lot of stuff. You know, I don't want to name names because right. But yeah, like it. You know what's interesting about it is, you know, we can be that quantitative second opinion and when you have an entire room of scouts, whether it's, you know, for the drafting or for Free Agency, you know those scouts are going to be pretty qualitative, and so if you want a quantitative second opinion, we're definitely there for that. You know, the other thing is, like you imagine you're an agent and you're representing a player. When you go in to have negotiations with a team, that team probably has and analytics guy who kind of goes in there with the data. And so if you're an agent who doesn't have data on your side, then you're in a disadvantage because they're going to use in the data to come up with as many different data points as possible to try to convince you that you're not worth what you think you're worth. And so like we have a like couple players that we work with, like trying to get them the best contract because, you know, we would churey pick some information that would say like they're...

...actually worth this, and the other sid would have information. And so there's is a lot of analytics and like your teams and players, that we do do on sort of a consulting basis. Yeah, so the players, I would be very interesting because there's there's different things. You can profile players him what their makeup is, their emotional side or Chertcal side, all that, what they're talent is, and then there's the stats that come from that. Right, what you do, and and for me is a player, I remember so many exit like interviews right with your coaches. Yep, like the seasons over. You know, go talk to your coach and then they go, well, what do you think you need to improve on? I don't know, probably everything right. You know, I don't know I need to. You know, I'm good to throw an evolve twenty five years down field or you know, I have a big arm. You know I love stand in the pocket. I probably love to improve on my scrambling or whatever. If but if I have those stats, Yep, you know, in the coach has look last year to this year, your first down. You know, you through this many percent of first down balls. Like, let's bring that up, let's work on let's give you some real stats to work on, because we know we all want to be bigger, faster and strong Argy, and I felt that's how you survive, Yep, where you want to lean down or you want to do all these things, but the numbers, those stats are you talking about? Like, like it really hit home when you said, like Hey, I through fifteen year past, but I didn't get the first down. By through three our past got the first down. Makes me think of Tom Brady, you know, is that that stat for him is probably through the roof compared to a lot of sure people in the League. Yeah, it's all about efficiency, you know, like, at end the day, like you, you want to maximize the amount of positive expectation you have per play, and so, you know, maybe there's some quarterbacks like it, like Joe flacco and Matthew Stafford can throw the ball from here to West Virginia, but if I'm not making the correct read of the the right read, then you know, like all the arm check in the world doesn't matter, which is why I think over long enough time frame, the quarterbacks that probably have the longest, most terrible careers are the ones that make the right decisions, the one that understand the contacts and understand that, you know, I don't need ten yards now, any three. And so making the right call, making the right you know like reads, like is is really important and that could be informed by analytics. Do you think that the personal side of sports, the individuals that you guys are, people are playing in trying to bed on and win money. Yep, and individual site, but they have a personal life to Um. Do you think that plays a role in any of this? It's because if, yeah, you know, I had three babies when I was ye playing for the redskins. You know, there were nights that I was sleepless and yeah, you know, things happen. They're sick and you're dealing with your wife and there's all stir things and but to me that doesn't, you know, take into count in the analytic side. Yeah, I know that that's very true. I think like that is sort of a hole in the game, so to speak. I think, you know, from our perspective, it gets a little bit overrated in the minds of you know, sort of like people tend to overthink, for example. So if there's a game that's snowing, for example, people will think, oh well, it's snowing, they're not gonna be able to throw the ball. And, like in most cases, people overrate that, like actually, snowing doesn't affect throwing the ball that much. Only in extreme examples done it. And so to some extent, like you know, some of the environmental stuff that you can't really quantify gets a little bit overrated. But there are things that we'll never have transparency. It will never know that you had like a newborn. I'm not going to know that Lebron James only got four hours asleep last night. Like yeah, there are certain things that we're not going to now. So all we can really do is do the best we have with the information we have available. And so you take so dave and I are part of a company here in Pittsburgh. It's called RCMIN ext for partners with Clem any family, and it's an APP that measures and monitors your brain performance. Sure, and it doesn't. It's an objective test that takes about five minutes and it lets you understand your short term member your executive decision, all that. Now you get a score at the end we don't diagnose anything or any of that, and I always that. I Ave always try to get into the sports industry because I think it's very powerful to understand your brain performance. Like if you have that number, it be if I have two quarterbacks, sure, one's a hall of Famer and all pro and then I have another guy in their performance literally says there's a difference. Yeah, like I think that's an intangible that that is it out there yet? Yeah, now, but sure, and I know I've talked to several players. They don't want to use it because they don't want it to determine in a negative way their contract. Sure or not? Getting think you did by team, a pre draft tool to use for teams. Yeah, I've talked to the conversace. Like I thinknderlo great to be in a comby because it's a more of a predictor of who that person is and like say the wonder like yeah, yeah, like the vertical. Yeah, I think the more information we have available, the richer or more accurate our prediction is going to be. I think where there's brain performance, whether it's blood pressure or like you know. I know the NFL is making a big push in to wearables and so not just R IFID to track movement, but like to track like you know, like how fast you're going, like what your blood pressure is, thinking like that. With the more information we have, the better is going to be. So, you know, I can understand, like from the NFLPA perspective, why they might not want right sort of stuff. But yeah, you like, you know, the more information we have,...

...it's just going to be yet when more revolved. Just well, I always thought about this day with the APP, like if if I have just get up in the morning and I play it, I'm going to have a certain score. Now, what if happens if I go to full exhaustion, I've been running and come in and play it? What what it? What is my score at full exhosttion compared? How does my brain function right, and all of that fourth quarter versus pregame? Well, I always say, I always give this examples, that I've seen so many guys come and go in the NFL and you look at him and you say this guy jumps higher than anybody in a team where he's faster anybody you know. And I've seen guys faster than Daryl Green, but they don't play as long as Yep, green right. So they're missing something and they jump offside. Yeah, sure, play or their reaction time is bad. They're missing a piece and that's what we this APP. I always wanted to get it in there because it'll find out what that limits. That's exactly right. I mean, like the when you were saying that the one sport I thought of when anything else as tennis, because you look at certain athletes like Federer or an a doll a joke of atch a screen and Williams, like the mental toughness you have to have to be an elite tennis players through the roof. Every single point. You have to have immense focus. If you mess something up the last point, get it out of your head. This is a new point and the players would have the most success and tennis have that cognitive ability to just like always maintain focus, always, you know, like just maintain that mental toughness, and that's a skill set that's very difficult to scout. It's very difficult to suss out, like, you know, going through like a combine interview and when you're talking to players, like you're trying to get your head around that. There's no real way to do it, but if there was some way to quantify that, that be a massively valuable thing. We kind of do that a little bit, but you know, it's just interesting. It's been. It's been for two years trying to figure out how to do that. You know, because you have entrepreneurial spirit. I was so excited to leave, like the game that I love, transition. I coach for a little bit then Al sudden we're in something they could play a factor, sir, that which is exciting, but you know, it's so new that. Yes, sports second is really interesting. I go to that might conference every year, like the Sloane, like the big Nard fast, like another there, and yet we see stuff there all the time, like new helmets and like a ball tracking and basketball and you know, there's like like different shoes or like the the amount of people who are thinking about that to me is really cool because, you know, in a day like sports is just, you know, you know, it's just like having fun, you're throwing a ball around, but like the amount of people who are thinking about how to get that one percent advantage at two percent advantage and there's always new ideas. It's yeah, it's really cool. So you're a fandel. Now. Yep, so what when you merge number fire the Handel? Now, what is your your job? Yeah, so they what do you do? Yes, so I'm a chief, old officer at Fandel. So, for lack of better phrasing, I basically decide what we build and when. So, you know, obviously, with past but being repealed and sports gambling being available in a state by state basis, that's taking up a lot of our attention. That's sort of why I'm in Pennsylvania right now. But yeah, so, you know, I think what we want to do is, you know, with Fandel, we want Fandel to be sort of a onestop shop for any kind of like fun sports games that someone could play on their phone or on the computer. And so maybe that's fantasy sports, maybe that's sports betting, maybe that's horse racing, maybe that's you know, maybe in time will build out a trivia APP or maybe in time will build out, you know, like a like a madden style game. Boy. Want to do is we realize that, you know, sports or something that like so many people love and you know, when you're watching a game, it's you know, imagine that to be the ice cream, well, the cherry on top is fantasy sports and maybe the whip cream is having a bet on the game, and so we want to build out these sort of like really cool experiences and for someone's just sports rond like me, it's it's perfect. But yeah, I think, you know, the fantal has about. I think we're north with a thousand bloyees now and it's really just sort of like there's all this stuff we want to do and I kind of have to decide. All right, you know, we're going to do this first and we're going to do this next and we're going to go into this market after that. And it's you know, I worked very closely with our engineering team and our executive team and just basically decide what we build. There's a lot of I would say there's a lot of bookies who aren't really why it's yeah, that's how uncle Joe, hey, uncle Jove, got ten on the seelers. Right, it's great, just pull your phone out and like it. And what's a matter of consumer protection? I mean, you know with Uncle Joe down the street, like if, like, you win big, then all of a sudden he's not calling you back, right, right, you know. So saves your knique caps. Yeah, yeah, like, you know, one thing I think that you know, like we take very, very seriously. You know, obviously we're excited about where the markets going and how big it is. We take responsible gaming very, very seriously. You know, we have a lot of models and a lot of like you know. You know, we can proactively tell when we think someone is has problematic behavior. And so if you're betting or playing DFS, like ten dollars a week, ten all as a week, ten all as, we all of a sudden, as a thousand like will flag that immediately. Yeah, and so, like there's a bit of a perception that, like, you know, that that we're not paying attention to that stuff or we don't care. We actually do care quite a bit. What would happen if that was flagged? Your would be...

...sort of like you get a call from our team, your your account. We're probably suspended, like you go into sort of like a sort of like a probation. Yeah, something like that, you know, because we're in this for the long term. You know, like with startups, especially, sort of what's going on with like lift and Uber and stuff like that. Like it may kind of seem like startups just there to make money now and kind of like worry about the future later. But you know, I want fan of will be a business for a ten, five and twenty thirty foot will like, like we like the IBM of this, and so the only way we do that is if we take a very long term approach and, you know, beat take things like responsible getting very, very seriously, take our relationships with the state regulators very, very seriously, you know, like we never cut in corners, like we never ever push boundaries, like, you know, we do things to a tea because we want to do things right. We want our users to feel safe and we want our relationships with the state regulators and everyone else to be as above board as possible. You guys had to be pretty excited when the government said that, you know, betting is no sure. I mean like it's like that's like a home running. Yeah, well, you like, you know, we built up a really great brand on the fantasy side, you know, being that sort of mobile, digital, like fun sports brand, and so when, you know, betting came online, first was New Jersey, now it's Pennsylvania and there's like eleven states now which have some some level legal betting. You know, we had that brand or ready. And so if we're going up against an MGM or resizers like, we like our chances because, you know, we've proven ourselves to be, like, you know, the the technology company in the space. We're not a brick and mortar, like, we're not a legacy company, like we're a bunch of technologists and engineers and designers that are building out products, not just, you know, casino operators. Well, this has to be a nightmare to the offshore, the Antique Wood and all that. Yeah, because it's a very lean, very recognized name, fanduel. Yeah, that now not legitimizes it, shure, but gives you a perception. Yeah, I've definitely gotten into trouble for, like, you know, being very candid about my feelings about the offshore guys and like definitely, like you know, there are people intern with the fan to old her like. You know, all right, take it easy, maybe right, but look, you know, again, I look at it surely from the consumer protection perspective, like if you use an offshore site, like those sites aren't legal, like they use the argument that if they're not explicitly illegal, then they must be legal, and that's a ridiculous argument. And so you remember happening in poker like like five or six years ago, like everyone was using party poker and poker stars and whatever, and then the government is waiting to shut those sites down and then everyone who had money on those sites didn't get that money back until like way later, if at all. Like I don't want that to happen. And so you know, if you use an offshore sight like that is possible likely to happen at some point because it's illegal, right. And so you know, I don't have much love for those guys, and that's also why I like you know, like as far as the way fatal operates, like we operate things like by the books, like just we never cut into corners. We have a very open and honors relationships with state lawmakers and regulators. You know, we're in this for the long haul and we want to do things in a sustainable way. Have you guys? Do you guys ever talked about? Okay, we have to be careful that we're not approached by athletes. Don't shure. Well, Ye, pange a game a hundred percent. You have hundred percent, like, like we did that very, very seriously and we've got. In the same way, we've gotten models that help us understand when someone could be problematic gambler. We also have models to just, you know, determine all kinds of fraud, whether it's money laundering, whether it's someone who might be a player, like if someone just kind of comes in one day and just puts fiftyzero on pit like that's going to raise a red flag right. So that there's all kinds of models to do that. Look like we have, in the same way that my team has a lot of data guys doing the analytics, we've also got a bunch of data guys looking at things like that just to make sure that there are at any problematic patterns that we need to catch. How are the how are the line is determined? Do Do you guys use third party that or how does that work? Yes, so a fandol group is is partially owned by a European company called Patty Part Betfair, and patty part betfair has been a operator in Europe for twenty, thirty, forty years, and so what's been really intrument to our success here in the states is we've been able to pair the strength of the fandel brand in our ability to build products with a lot of the operational back end they bring to the table, because if we were just going to come to the market as a as a new company, we have to rethink and like to like learn all that stuff on the fly, whereas they had stuff out of the box that was like okay, like they've got an entire risk and trading team that sets those lines, but they know exactly, like if Aaron Rodgers wasn't going to play tomorrow, they would be like, okay, let that line just move from three to five. Like they have all that stuff sort of out of the box, and so we've been able to marry those two things. It's one of the main reasons why we've been as successful as we've been. Well, it's just incredible how off, how close they are. So so it's amazing, like you know, even the over and unders, yeah, Ye, just or just just crazy with that. I think that what you guys are doing is is...

...incredible because you're taking something dead everybody's been doing for a long time, you know, with Uncle Joe Yep or whoever it is. You know, we've been doing that, but now people have been waiting for it to be oh sure, jitimate. I've been amazed at the demand, like you know, it's been. You know, we've better reach a location like it, like a physical sports book at the meadowlands or by the giants and jets play, and that place is a madhouse on Sundays. We Lee even even a sunny like like a Thursday, like ear like a Wednesday, for basketball. That place is a bad house. And so, you know, it's one of those things like I kind of equivocated to like, you know, like marijuana a little bit, which is like look, this is happening, whether you admit it or not. Right, like people are going to do this. So, you know, as opposed to just saying, like, you know, Oh, it's illegal and pretending it's not happening, why not just legalize it and say, you know what, like who'll take a cut of it? Because then the state gets the tax is, but then the consumers get consumer protection, they get, you know, raportable brands behind it, they get, you know, like far protection behind it. They like it, like it's really a win win. Well, nally, as a consumer, you know you're going to get paid. You know your payment, if you feel to open account, is really going to be credited. Yeah, you know, it's yeah, all the stuff that you're afraid of an off sure stuff is not exsit in a business for for ten years and, like we operate retail locations. My email address is available to anyone who wants to go find it, and so you should have every single confidence that, like, if you deposit tens and you win twenty, we're going to give you that twenty. There's there's no right, yeah, question of that. And so I think that's the biggest thing that like is like, you know, there's really sort of super charged. This is like now it's finally out in the open. Now it's run like an actual business and it's not uncle Joe. It's, you know, like an actual you guys have issues with real time information at all order. That kind of pass the point. Yeah, not, not really. I mean, you know, there are some sports which, like you know, it's theoretically available to get an advantage, but not, not, not really. I mean you know the latency time. So we work with stats and Sports Inc and a lot of the improvisers, like we'll get the information in nanoseconds, like like those those those hype, so to Speaker, so quick that. Yeah, it's not so much a problem anymore. So I went to my friend runs professional bull riding. Okay, all right, and it's a growing industry. Yeah, bigger and big. Yep. And they change how the whole scoring is done because they had such latency in the scoring because professional bull ridings all over the world. There sometimes, as they said in the old days, it would take two weeks to get scores from Brazil and get back to you. Say It's fake. Figure out WHO's the next, you know, the the next one up. So they change how the scoring is done and it's it's instant now. It's incredible. Yeah, I said it's it's change bull riding servants. It's it's grown tremendously. Is that something else that you guys would get into? Oh, sure, look like you know, probably on a monthly basis. We talked to someone like bull riding. We've had drowne racingly, we've talked to we've talked to xfl and a AF when it was around, and I think for us, like we want to be able to work with anyone who wants to be able to have a fantasy game around what they're doing or a bet's available. I think as long as you've got a data feed we can work from. Then, you know, look like we can have that conversation, because we remember we went and and it was we didn't know what to expect. Yeah, you know when we went to the one in West Virginia, but it was so exciting. It was like well, they can they get met more viewers on their Sunday show then the NHL national broadcast. Yeah, I mean it's a big time, you know. Yeah, there's some airs we won't go like, we won't go into like little league, right, like, yeah, I tool sport. Yeah, we're not doing this's a marriage. But Chinese Tay Pay. Yeah, yeah, well, we're not going to do it. But yeah, high school sports another good one. But for the most part, like, you know, as long as we feel like like there's there's a credible market for it, yeah, we'll do it. And you know, it's been interesting. Like you know, in a lot of ways, fantasy sports and bedding almost legitimizes the sport, the same way that poker was legitimized until ESPN started showing in right, and so there probably are a couple areas where, you know, that are just sort of like ripe for this, like it's a great sport to bet on, it's a great sport play fantasy on, and all that domain is going to make it all that cooler. So one area we are not that we've lot thought a lot about. One is esports, which I'm sure it's, you know, like you've just been kicking around forever. But I think darts is really interesting because, like darts is like it like it's fast paced, it's like it's great to watch from a from a streaming perspective. The streaming rights are somewhat inexpensive, so you might be able to watch a darts match inside of the fandel lap. You right, and like we can wrap a betting experience around it. And so, you know, like with there are a couple people on our office, especially some of the UK guys, who are just like kicking down my door being like okay, guys, darts, let's go. Yeah, that's great to watch, if you ever watch it really Oh yeah, unbelievable. And they could have like three pipes and still throw rules. Oh yeah, it's unbelieve in the UK, like they run out with these these big convention holes again like tenzero drunk people and they're watching a guy...

...dark in like yeah, so, speaking of UK, are you guys international? Yeah, so fandel is in so fandel is a part of the Patty Power Betfair group and we've got a lot of operations in Europe. And so the Patty powered betfair brands have, you know, pretty strong market share in Europe. Fandel is the brand we have here in the states. In Australia we've a brand called sports bet, and in Georgia, not Atlanta Georgia, but the Walman state of Georgia, there's a company called a Jara Bet. So, you know, having this this this worldwide, you know sort of portfolio allows us to sort of like share learnings, allows us to share a common back end, it allows us to have a lot of efficiency in our processes. And so so if I live in Africa, say, and I want to follow American sports, Yep, can they get on Fandel from there? Now? So, like they'd have to use a local coming for that. So you know, one thing the regulayers are very, very serious about here in the states is around your location. So, for example, Pennsylvania is legal for mobile sports betting, but Ohio isn't. And so they want to make sure that if I'm walking along the border between Pennsylvania Ohio. If I'm ten feet on this side of the border in Pennsylvania, it should work, but if I walk ten feet over there, it shouldn't work. And so that's a level of like wow, granularity you have to have, because I didn't know that's unbelieve it. They're very, very serious about that. And let you get into some weird situations where, like you know, like what if, you know, I'm in New York City and I'm in a fairy that's going across the Hudson and all of a sudden I'm in New Jersey, like you know, you have to be able to determine where you cross that line. So it's a pretty complex challenge. But I do understand where the states are coming from, like they want to make sure that, like you know, if you are in Pennsylvania, you're allowed to, but if you're in Ohio you're not, because there has to do with money and everything. There's tax applications, there's like it's something that we have to take very seriously. What about in Canadare you guys in Canada Fandel for DFS? They so like you can play DFS contest in in in Canada, but not for betting yet. Now, yeah, you can do fantasy. Yeah, good. Yeah, I think that's like there's there's some provinces which are, you know, like a little more flexible in others. But yeah, it's you know, it really seems like every other day there's a new state or a new province or a new country that like changed around a lot. That's like in the past like three months, like you know, Illinois been moving forward, I was moving forward, Tennessee's been moving forward. It's been sort of like a tsunami on this stuff. So do you have to follow that or do you just a legal team follows? Yeah, they have no it's timing right away, like yeah, jump on it. I mean like like I'm on the emails, I know what's going on, but like the legal team is on top of it. Um. Now another reason you're in Pittsburgh is you've just formed a partnership with drum beatist. Yes, you have to be pretty excited about that. It's amazing. I mean you know, as a steelers fan, like you know, drumatist is, lads, what is an amazing guy into tenzero rushing yards, live fast rushing yards. Yeah, it's been great. You know, we do like to partner in in in local areas with sort of like local celebrities, because it's one thing just to have like a general like ad you know, just just running on Katka or whatever, but to have Jerome Bettis as the local brand ambassador or Brian Westbrook in Philly or in, you know, New York, I would be like Phil Sam's or something like that. Like that. Carr is a lot of weights. You know, what we don't do is no, like I don't want Joan Bettis to say that he liked the APP just because we're paying him. Like we actually liked show on the APP and in lightly how Tom Use it and ask them what he thought, because you know, like consumers are small enough to to tell when someone's being in authentic, right. And drone bettis like he's great to being authentic and he was great. And some of the shots we did with him, because he actually did like the APP, we showed it to him, he's like, Oh wow, that's really cool and he was asking us like, you know, Oh wow, like how do I get to Notre Dame? Like how do I get to the steelers? Because those are things, especially him how to do it. But, yeah, wif the PBA al. Yeah, like Dick Webber junior versus Parkerbon throw really anaxcited about that. So one of the last things we do is we called the Nohudel, okay, the two minute drill, all right, which I'm sure you got a lot of stats running. Okay, yes, but we asked you a bunch of questions and we try to get through this and you can pepper the answers back to us as quick as pass. Okay, to day all he starts. Good Day, all right, and you can't say fan duel for this answer. Okay, what's the what's the best innovation in sports in the last ten years? I would say I lose to a little earlier. Like I really like what the rockets have done with the way they they played the game. Like it's kind of like different than like way basketball is typically played. Like there's no like two point jumpers, but they've really changed around what I think the way basketball is plays. I'd say that. Do you have a pet peeve? I have a pet peeve. It's qualitative sports analysts. So give us an example. Yeah, I mean, like I just got like like again, like I recognize the value he brings the table, but like I can't watch skip bablets from more like thirty seconds. It's like I like, this is so different than the way I approach things. Well, you would rather watch Shannon Charp oh I. I'd rather watch like someone like, you know, like reading a math book. Another one of those two. What's the most overhyped thing in sports today? Over...

...hyped, I think in football. I think quarterback arm strength is the most overrated thing. Really, I don't who now that was written. We're going to right or yeah, bread far better, lady cliff for that. Like, I think accuracy is underrated relative towards arm strength right now. I agree with that. I agree that because they goes back to the little thing. You know, this is covered. Yeah, this is Oh, yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah, but if you don't have the arm strengths in certain situations to to throw it over, they jam's fall in love with guys who can like throw sixty yards from their knees, but they don't care about accuracy as much they should. But then you see guys like mahomes and Aaron Rodgers who do have great arm strength and very accurate and when you're both. It's amazing. Yeah, Jeff George and one of the best arms in football, but he is he had a yogurt or Marino. Yeah, you know, it's just it's just so relative, you know. And I played with guys like Steve Burline, who had a great career, but his arm strength wasn't near with some of the other people I've played with. As a fan, what was your greatest sports memory? When the Penguins won the first down the COP ninety one. They beat the Missour north stars. Ain't nothing. I was nine, but I mean that was just amazing. Do you have a mullet for actually really enough, like I've got back some phones. I probably did like that, damn like they did the Mulla and the rat tail was like I think. So rat till you got a read, till I might eat. May Be unintentionally my mom cut my hair and tells about in call it. So yeah, probably did an unintentional rat tail, but I that was a great memory. I lived I was in turning in Pittsburgh over the side. I grew up in Tucson, but I was in Katika living on a north side when the celebration was at the point. Remember people swimming across the river, I mean and then going out to the airport, going out on the parkway, the traffic was like one mile an hour. People at Kegs in their May pick up trucks, walking along their car drinking out of kegs, going to the airport. I mean it was it was what it yeah, it was great. I was and that started the dynasty. Yeah, I mean our hockey. We should just be so thankful over the last so many years. Yeah, the people that we've had playing amazing, amazing. Yeah, just been incredible. Drafted to draft picks and when they happened, we're still have most amazing. So you've had an incredible career. You've been with these companies. You pay an entrepreneur or like you wanted to be, if you go back and tell you're a young nick introducing the capital one Walmart rewards card. Earn unlimited five percent back on everything you buy at Walmart Online. It's the perfect card for all your families. Hints this holiday season like five percent back on the Air Friar Grandpa told you about when he fell asleep in his chair m FRY and heasying, or five percent back on the laptop your sister had caroler sing teach Kry the capital one walmart rewards card, orn unlimited rewards, including five percent back at Walmart online. What's in your wallet? Terms and exclusions apply. Capital one gun a that's running outside to go play and you stop me say hey, I just want you to remember this one thing. What would that be? I would say that just believe in yourself, like you know what, you've got this two skills. Go do it, you know, follow your dreams and don't let everyone ever say you can't do something like and I didn't really run into that. What it wasn't like? I people who doubted me. But you know, I've always had a lot of sort of, you know, self confidence, and when you're entrepreneural, we kind of have to go and do something that maybe some people think you're kind of crazy, like my old family thought it was crazy. They're like just go buy a house in Pittsburgh and kind of settled down. But you have to believe in yourself and you have to believe in the power of sort of chasing out your dreams. We love your story on who wants to be a millionaire. You hit a hundred thousand and you're like hmm, that's it. That's it. Yeah, you care with after that. You knew that. Yeah, loved away a million dollar. Yeah, but you knew you were a point. Yeah, now you can take it. Now I go do it. You can do another step. If you were commission Suner of any League for day, what would you change? This going to be a kind of crazy answer, like one of my dream jobs other than one I have, which is probably my dream job. If I had my second favorite job, that would everyone in life. I want to be the CEO of us a track and field and I think track and field is sports that I love dearly because I like I was so serious about it, and track and field, relative of public perception, has kind of dropped quite a bow and I think there's a lot of things from a digital perspective, from reaching out to new audiences perspective, that that I think they could do. So if I was and rover one day, I'd be the CEO of U, say, track and field, out of a lot of conversations with companies like Fandel, companies like ESPN, just like figure out how to get more younger fans and just in a track and field. I think one thing about track and field. I loved it in the s and maybe early s. There was seemed like there was more personalities, sure, stuff that you could people that you really rooted for, stuff it. I think it's a little bit less than that. Yeah, like it. It's become a little bit corporate, you know, it's become a little bit of you you could these incredibly talented athletes, but they kind of like dock each other a little bit, like, you know, you don't get like the...

...matchups and like it's not televised. We should be. And so, yeah, I would love that. That'd be great. So, if you could give our fans one analytic one thing they should watch for this football season to focus on, what would it be? I'm not prepared, like I that type of thing about that. I would say that. Yeah, and like this is going to come across as me being the Yinser and like me, but like I think that people are wildly overrating the browns right now, like they are trading the browns in like the best case scenario of what happens when everything goes rights, when the chemistry is correct, when Baker Mayfield and Beckham Jr and Chob like all you know, have the best possible performances like you have for short in the field and like most teams don't just go from like four twelve or twelve and four like that. There's going to be some growing pains, I think. I read a lot of articles about how the browns are the favorites and they af seen north and etc. Etc. I am a little bit skeptical and so I not analytics per se, but like I think, you know, general tone of people discussing the browns. I think is has has leather to be overrated, as he talks with the Iron City. Sure, yeah, right, well, if your quarterback and they the best quarterback and slamming a beer on the jumbo troun in front of what Fortyzero people? But I think the browns have been bad for so long that like everyone wants them to be good, right. So, like they're kind of like, you know, I want them to be good. So, like I'm just going to imagine all these good things are going to happen and everything's going to work out perfectly. But you know, like what happens when Beckham Junior gets injured? What happens it Baker Mayfield, like it's injured, like what if you know Olda Beckham Jr, like he's an amazing talent, like he certainly had a lot of off the field and sort of like sure, it's so, like you know, you can't just assume that everything is going to work out perfectly, and so I think a lot of people are sort of using that I want good things to happen to Cleveland as an excuse to sort of as a so, what are the odds on the browns whenning to whop all you think? I'd have to go look. I would bet number fire has them at something like, I'd say probably three or four percent. Yeah, I probably agree. We am my I guess I'd agree with last one day. Yeah, now there's in the world of statistics. Do you have at least favorite statistic that's often utilize but not very important, like mine was, and they kind of done away with it. Game winning our BIYS. Yeah, I always said that was so hooky because that could happen in like the fourth in a yeah, wins are typically way overrated, like whether it's a pitcher or like a hockey goalie. I think wins are overrated. But really, I mean any counting statistic, any statistic that is just like counting up what happened. Those are inherently going to be a little bit flawed, and so can use my example about expected points. You could have a quarterback that throws for five thousand yards and you have another quarterback in with those for three thousand. It might turn out that the quarterback who has three thousand was a much more effective and efficient quarterback than the guy who has five thousand. And so like. Whether it's hall of fame, whether it's like all star, whether it's like, you know, just talking about who the best players are. People overrate just counting statistics, like how many of this is, how many that? Would those get overrated. In efficiency and you know, sort of advantatistics get underrated. We we had to talk about Joe Namoth right, right. You know, you're all of Famer and you dig down into statistics, I'm not even close to a lot. Look at Tek branch. I mean like like Terry Bradshaw's number is like like he's got more picks than TV's in his career. It's like within like one or two. Yeah, and like you look at him and like and compare him to like some modern quarterback, like wow, like Tara Bradshaw. This like, how's it doing the hall of fame? Well, the Games change around so much, right, you know you can't really do that. Apples to apples. But Yeah, like any counting statistic, I think gets overrated. Well, especially how to games are changing now to with how long pitchers actually pitch. Oh yeah, but you know on all that on pitch, pitch can that's much. If I have a pet peeve, that's my the hundred. It hit Shit you count? Yeah, like we looked it up that Nolan Ryan actually threw two hundred and thirty five pitches in one game, like and they can't even get to like eighty. Yeah, without them saying well, we had take sense. What I'm like. You've like like claying Kershaw, who's like mowing people down and like he's just killing them, and take him out in the six to put on a pitcher who isn't as going as clay carshaw. Then, like, it doesn't always make sense. I I don't get it. I think you have to throw a longer to build your arm strengths up. Yeah, right, if you only throw no more than five innings, you're never going to be able to throw. Yeah, will complete game when you need to yeah, in the playoffs and like it right, yeah, right, exactly. All right. So thank you so much for coming UN pleasure with us. We really appreciate that. It was very informative. Our fans are going to love it. One last thing. We want to know if you give us a little shout out from you and Fandel about how you guys love watching huddle up with good God. Yeah, so thanks much for having us. I appreciate it. You know, houddle up with Gostin Dave, you know. You know fannel is a huge support of what you guys do and you know I'm going out for good things and and hopefully we can work to get in the future. So much, guys. Thank you.

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