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Huddle Up with Gus
Huddle Up with Gus

Episode · 2 years ago

Nik Bonaddio

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Nik Bonaddio is the CPO of FanDuel, CEO of numberFire, and former contestant on "Who Wants to Be A Millionaire?". Want to get ahead in your sports betting this season? Nik breaks down how analytics and statistics give you an edge with FanDuel. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Introducing the capital one Walmartrewards card earn unlimited five percent back on everything you buy atWalmart Online. It's the perfect card for all your family is hence thisholiday season, like five percent back on the airfire Grandpa told you aboutwhen he fell asleep in his chair fryazing or five percent back on thelaptop, your sister had caroler sing the capital one Walmart rewards card.Current unlimited rewards, including five percent back at Walmart Online.What's in your wallet terms and exclusions apply capital, one Ganaright dave. What's up how you doing today,Hey gus good thanks! Today's episode is a person. You know we're both been intothese data and analytics for the pirates yeah we like Dat and analyticsfor how fast the ballleavs a stadium. You know how many strikeouts parts haveevery day, yeah they're right swing at bad pitch ratio from our right, yeahright, but there's gentleman who be coming on he grew up. Kind of north side went to NA ended up going to Carneggie Mellon, buthe is like a data. An analytic guu he's a genius when it comes to that.Just our few minutes with him that waspretty evident right off the bet, and it's interesting because he's alwaysloved sports. He always loves the numbers. You know that data side ofsports and analyzing it, and so then he graduates from collegeand he's like okay, what I'mi going to do and he had a always had an idea in the backof his mind of what company he would start if he could right. So you know:What's crazy is what he got picked to go on to whowants to be a millionaire? What I think is interesting is theprocess and how that happened right. It wasn't immediate, it wasn't immediateand it was on a touchtone phone answeringquestions, five questions, pressing the buttons and then hanging up and thennine months later getting a call saying you're on right and your on. So he goeson. Who wants to be a millionaire? Had A couple lifelines and all that, likeeverybody knows, the show wins a hundred grand SOS. That's it I'm takingit and started his company number fire yeah. Well, he had h. He had the numberhe needed to win dollar wise in order to create his company right and hedidn't risk answering the question getting it wrong and falling under thatnumber. So he pulled away, took the check, started a company now he'sflying high and yeah well, and so he starts number fire right doing what heloves to do. Data analytics on Sports, all kind of sports, and so lo and behold, who buys them FandalFandl so sells, is company. The fandelbecomes a chief product officer at Fandel and the rest F, his history andso nick bonadio is going to be our gueststoday, and I think it's going to be pretty interesting for us to hear. Maybe I mean it's a higher level data aleticsand what we think we know it'sthe stuff they track is stuff. You can't evenimagine is tracked yeah, but the exciting about fan dols. Now you can wager in Pennsylvania. I know they have some specials going out for the pit pensay game and you know you hear a lot of fandol on the radio now lot of fandland the crazy thing is that you can't do sports betting in Ohio, but you cando it in Pennsylvania and they have to figure out if, where you are yeah herehere he's Gon to explain now: Thou bearing the how they do that exactlyright. I know so we're excited to have nick jump in the huddle with us todayhere on hotdlwop with Guss, so welcome in to the Huddle Nick Bunadio, all right Dave. Today we have NickNickas the chief product officer at Fandal, butbefore that he has a great great story. He's from local here in Pittsburgh grewup in Wexford. It was on who wants to be a millionaire, and I can't wait tohear that story. Man, then, from that he started his owncompany. He might be one of the smartest guests. We've had on to anddefinitely Y A definitely waste more than you and I can bi anacan guaratee.U This Patrick's up there yeah Li Harvard. I don't know Carneie Mallon,Harvard yeah, but welcome to the show. Thank you so much eah as ppreciate it.So I don't want to mess your last name up. So, let's say correctly: Yeah, it'sBonned, O sot, a d, the second deas with thos everyone off. I think theremust have been a typeotallic island, an Myyeah, your right, but yeah. It'sponted t you but ideal. So you know people mess my name up yeah time theyspelt it wrong on my progoljer. So I understand when people don't say it'sthe right way and it sometimes it Erg it's kind of the breath, far thing:Favrybo, yeah, yea, yeah, so so nick.

What we really do on the show we wantto get to the crucks o how you fell in love with sports, because we knowyou're on the whole other side of the sports room. Now, where you're, theanalytics you're figuring out how to how to help people understand the game in adifferent way. So what was that Lovol sports were? Did that start for youyeah? I mean you know. As you said, I grew up in Pittsburgh and so when yougo up in Pittsburgh, its impossible not to be a penguins fan of steelers fans,just a part of the culture here, and so I was just one of those kids growing upthat I' come home from school and just immediately go outside and I was luckyenough to live in a neighborhood wher. There was a bunch of kids, my age, andso you know I don't know if kids thay still do this, but you know we justwould go out and if it's in the fall we play football and it's in the Spring Teplay baseball and basketball and hockey and everything. So I was just alwayssort of like a hyperactive kid and E. my mom, just booted me out of the house,be like go Li, go, do something and so sports as sortof always been sort ofyou know one of my hobbies, I neede to joke around a lot of my office that youknow. I really in life, only really love two things. The first is my wifeand the second is sports, and so it's very important to get that that order,correct right, Oh yeah, we yeah understand, was just part of my life,no much just as long as I can remember. So when you would go out with those kidsin the neighborhood. I mean to me that was like those are still some of myfondest Ma. Absolutely, but those times teach you so much about sports, an lifeyeah general, because there's no coaches, there's no parents saying getup, and now that and you get knocked down a lot yeah dabsolutely, I think,like it, teaches a lot of o a persof verance for sure, but it really teahesyou about about leadership and sort of team work. You know, I think you know,as ive, moved forward O my professional life. You know I've had to work with.You know my company different people from different lolks of life, whetherthe marketers or whether they're business people or whether they're youknow external third parties that we work with you know. Sports teaches somuch about team work, ive about how to communicate and how to lead teams thatyou know when I see resumes of people who come in who have sports backgrounds.I'm immediately attracted to that, because those candidates, I know, willhave the ability to like really bring teams together. WENL also, you know theplaying out in the backyard with your friends. You learn how to work outproblem. Sure it's Jus, you guys, there's no umpire yeah parents yeah andthat that's an important aspect. A lot of people are no longer reallyexperience. Absolutely when they're not yeah, especially here in Pittsburgh.You know when the weather is cold. You know like get a little bit tough too.You Know Il Plan that snowfultball or you know, playing some hockey in somepretty girls weather, like you kind of get a little bit somethat western PAtoughness yeah and you didn't want to be the kid not to go out because I ohknow right. You had to go out like if you were that kid like well yeah, thenthey get snowballs that thronin the house. Well, someone ad of like Goliand,someone had to play third base and you know like I'm, not Gona a my team down,so I ga U but outside well, I want to ask stick to because we have a streetgoing of people of gas that have played whiffle balls. Oh Yeah, kids, you we love with oi mean like those thingsyou can get like a curve. That goes like five feet to the left and you cunreally work at thing eh, so fuck Dave claims that he has ball, that can dru from twel to six.Okay, all right seen it yet so! Well Yeah! We did we. You were supposed toBern that today we're going to be playing in our studio. We're gonna havea special litleball special and I can prove it were deve en, or wit bill,bading cage, Wa, wiffeball, badding cage, eahright yeah, some of thepirates and Mike just buck on their knees like yeah get Josh Bellan here myCotchen in here and just bring them up. Rightr yeah M railing out yeah yeahwhuldn t you just get Josh Bell, I think is ooball can ike even theplaying field yeah, you know y definitely ismos. Definitely so an'e. your first memory that you had because you talked about you, wentgettin out with all your friends was your first memory of something that wasactually you know where your parents Haid. Yougot to go play this, and you know that was that first, what was that firstsport for you were yeah. For me, you know yeah, it was. It was probably probably soccer because, like uolyousoccer here is pretty big. You know, I think you know my parents were alwayslittle worried about football because, like I was always like kind of on thesmall side. So like I'm six five now I'm on t e on the bigger side, I wasdefinitely late, bloomer relative towards science ands. So my parents arealways worried about tackle football again. You know how Western Pa I's kindof riht a tumble a little bit so definitely the most organized port. Iplayed with soccer, but if I point to a sport that I played, the most like kindof backyard was actually hockey because I gew up in the Maryland Muera and sorigh n Marilyn me late s. The Lady wos irs was like the coolest person inPittsburgh. He was like every kid wanted, her Le Mia and so more than anyother sport as far as how much in played was actually hockey but e.definitely more organized one was soccer and then, when it got in highschool and playing socceris playing tennis in the spring- and you know Ialways tell a story so again- I was on the small side. You know I went to Naup in the BURBS and you know between the the summer between my junior andseniors of high school, I basically shot up from like five eight to likesix four six, five, just like that, and I come back for for fall that year andall of a sudden, the voleyball coach wants to talk to me all of a sudden, abasketball coach as Talkin Yeah Ikelii...

...tried ot last year, and you told melike hey good hustle kid, like you know it's not going to work out, but youknow right: Ow Yeah keep practicing and en like like, like. I couldn't get thetime of day from those guys now, all of a sudden Lik. You know with basketballcoaches, like hey, you know, try os or Monday, like rihsure you're, there 'mlike all right, fine, whatever but os to probably Gota couple couple looks meI don't know see like you know. I was a Nerte all the way through so like I wasplaying the long game of like you know what, like one of these days like beinga Nerde, is going to work out to my advantage right, high school. Isn'tthat time, let I'll just play the long game. Ere Well, O Bing T tallerneryeah.Rather it shortern Yeah E, so so the when did you get in tracked,like I know the devil? I actually was until college, so you know at Cmu now. Obviously S me was notexactly do on sports, but you know it was one of the things where Iwasinfraternity and a couple of my fraternity. blohers are on the trackteam and the coach had an intermeral track meat to sort of like Sayng, forpeople who aren in the track team come out and kind of experience track andwhatever and my fraternity kind of formed a tract team and we went to go,do it and you know I showed up and I won like four or five events I wantedhthe hundred. I won the two hundred Iwon, the long jump and the track coach comesover to MEES. Like yeah. You should probably try that teand so yeah, so Iended up doiing the team. A couple years later I was an all American andtrack that's ALF and so yeah it was. It was funny like because you know Ididn't run in high school, but all the sports that I played kind of turned meinto this kind of general athlete. It turns out that, like you know track,was there one sport I was naturally drawn to because of all the differentsports I played going up. What fraternity were you in? I was incapital, Toro Wi saw on witpd that you were pike and they were just like kindof across theway from my sexuis. Yes, so I have a like so pike AP Alfa atTalsa. They were kind of failing, okay, yeah, and so they came to the footballteam Y, not the whole team, but some of US- and they said Hey, we need help.Will you guys help us out come to our parties come to do eerything, we'lljust make you members yeah. So now they made us a member and we would go to theparties and we, you know, then all of a sudden, theire memberships reing up andwe really didn't do a lot, but I still get all the e the letters Om. The likeyou know I'm like now. They say I'm like one of the pikes that everybodyknows: Youa Noo, my PA yeah, it's absolutely crazy, but it's good. It's agood thing! Wel I's cool like seeing you you know it's not the kind ofschool with a party just kind of comes to you right. You have to sort of seekit out because no canthe roll ners, I in neor. So it was one of those thingswhere like. If you wanted to have any kind of regularly normal social life,that's kind of what you had to do in tha school, Lak, Sam you, and so Iwould never have thought myself as being a fraternity guy and because justyou think of Animal House, you think of all those stories. An Lik that wasn'tme but that at a school like cme, it actually was because that was the onlyway you could have someone of a normal Collin social life. Otherwise I'd bejust sitting in the dorms playing. You know: counterstriggle Daers, rightright when you were in high school. You know you talk about your love of sport,but we know that you know you're big into the analynics er and the numbersof the game. How did it start for you in high school yeah? So you know my dad-and we were talking about this now- my dad workd for PPG for like forty fiftyyears and so he's like sort of an old school nerd like way before Ou, we backin the slid roll days right, and you know he was always keen to havecomputers around the house, because he sort of foresaw that computers were theway that t was going to go always had a natural appitude for math or somethingthat I was attracted to. But you know when I started looking atthings like statistics, so I used to obsessively track like badding averagesand live back in ninety four, when John Olarud was about to bat four hundredhewas batting, you know just just tracking that and kind of gettingheirerstanding of numbers, and just you know like I always thought you knowthat that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to work in math and really theonly two jobs I ever wanted out of life was either to be a stockbroker or to dosomething in sports, and you know being a computer guy and like right round thetime the Internet happened. I was like Jeez, you n. This is amazing, there'sso much more stats I could look at, and that was always just kind of naturallydrawn to it. What's interesting about sports is that it's such a richdatacend, everything that happens every rebound every goal. Every Home Ron ismetacously tracked. It sits in a database somewhere, and I always justwanted to like take a look at that data and try to you know, figure out. If I'mgoing to have a n argument with one of my friends around who's, better MichaelJordan or Leron James, I don't want to just say like well. Lo Bronn James isbetter because he dunkd, you know, like you know, that's a reght quality ofargument. Lif the! If the numbers are there like, there's Gott be some way. Ican dig into it and try to figure out like why Izaclermon Jameis, better, youcan prove it yeah and so like. I was 't, always fascinated abyut that because itwas like the like the combining of two things I really liked. I rate like math,I real like computers, an I love sports and it just like see Sota to gamingright. So man's been around a long time. All these things David. I still talkabout techmoand yeah. It's super techmol yeah right! So did you play a lot of that because theyhad some stats yeah? Oh Yeah, yeah, like n. Now it's like crazy with heSRNCAR. Oh yeah, like you know, if I go back and look at like my secondgenesisand Inteno back in the day like I didn't play any like Zelda ther, thatit was always the Mbajm, it was techo...

...super bowl, madit nd, you know, Oh yeahfor sure, but Jackson was POEC, was in ninety nine, like I possa, whateverYeah Eus, just just that sweep which you're Gon Mazike yeah you just gave it.It was like when I coach e Zeq Elliot Yeah Scool and a Wa that was like my BoJackson, thiy just give it to Zek and like he' score Fhrewe Times, and thenwe let it rant play. My friends actually give me like a bunch of crapOt. This sometimes just like. If I were to play mad and it's not actuallyplaying madden that I like so much it's the franchise mode. I like signingplayers, I like trades, but I like making the rosters because the the gameitself is fine. But like it's really for me more about, like you know, howdo I figure out how to make the best trail? I so like it's almost like beinga GM a little bit like that's, actually more, what I'm interested in versus theactual game itself, so yeah Thust, you know I love playing mad in those kind ofgames like NC, a football that old game like I ice to love, recruiting akanofitself like was okay, fine whatever, but like I wanted to turn pit Rih Wat,thirty, seven time National Tam good, like with that one yeah! No! I wassimilar and no, I think after then, now we're going back again to techmoboledays. T you could comply. There was at the end you could combile Compilacompus with rosters. I think I would play you know: Do thisrosterd by super roster, but then, once someone scored on me and I thinkI' start over tha. You know because I wanted to make like when I make itperfect yeah like how did this happen? Yeah I drem Lana Defensi tackle likeright. Drum round hat happen. Ounon he proyy would have been my boys do that too, because they play,I mean theyre in college and Tholt play mad. An on that yea. Their favoritething is to to recruit like they can trade players an get new ones. They canwork towards getting a better player and all that and then they make thesethese crazy teams and go out and play, and I go well. Why don't you guys go on?I don't Kn, even know what o twitch, I think ea right that that everybody canwatch it like. Now we don't care about that. We play with yeah other yeah, butit's a great way for them to stay connected sor, because its e,all over the Oh yeah and, like you know, loo Yo, go online. Look at like fancysports, like what fandol does with DFAs and sports betting, there's so manyopportunities for people to interact with sports, and just so like you, Wdig into the research to dig ing the numbers, like you know, there'sprobably so many more people like mee now than the were even five years ago.Ten years ago, just like everyone's kind of turned into this, you know kindof Mat Silvery. You know like Sports Mathrat, because you know it's. Youknow we look at fantasy sports and look at you lilook like thfs and Ventin,like it encourages that kind of thinking encourages you not to just belike. Oh well, you know I'll start Ben this week because then is awesome likeno like I'll start ben this week, because you know maybe thee playin, theBANGALS and the dangls have a pretty weak past defense e ther, reallysusceptible to thrir down and been passes lot and Thir down. Like you knowit, you know it's sort of opene up the vailable sports. I think a lot ofpeople typically thought that woul happend, I isports matches relativelyrandom things just happen, but they don't just happen. There's K, owinherent biases that you know coordinators have that teams have that.Coaches have that. You know you only going to get to really understand onceyou dig into the numbers Wat lite in Speing of then then in the state ofOhio, Whit's in record and state of Ohio. It's like forty two two,something like that. You know really. That's es. Remember that Yeah Yeah, Iwon't remember Yeah Know, but you remind me well Lik, you know some ofThas stuff. Actually, like isn't all that useful because, like you know,you'll always hear some people say like well, you know the the bengals areSamina no and Dom Games where it's thirty, two degrees are lest outside.You know, three days or less after a rain like like, like there's somethings which are so arcane that they're actually not that predictive right, ayou kind of have to take it a little bit with a Gran afsault son that times.But you know it is interesting, just amount of data that's available. Youknow where I think a lot of that started was when Campa Bay always usedto have to go up to Green Bay and play right and they would never win becausethey just yeah o migt ar called weather yeah. Just it just does something toyou when you practice him warm and all of a sudden you're in, like thirtydegrees, right you're, just so much coer, and it's just such a differentway. Like a turf to grass, I mean look at the team like the Saynes o. TheFalcons I mean Ou know I don't know is for sure it have to co Lik into it, butlike I have to think that the record on on turf is probably, like. You know,six fifty seven hundred, but on grass, its probably closer to five hundred,because it slows the team down. They can't do the things they usually do andtat stuff is real, and you know s it's only recently that people have theability, from a data perspective, to really dig intof that stuff right like also another big one- and I don'tknow if this is true or not, but you always heare about the west coast teamtarfor playing a one oclock game in the east. I don't know what the breakdownis there, if that's, if that's just like a myth or thought or if there'sreally evidence e someone, the Mintl I mean like you, look at you know liketake the London Games like those games, are always super low, qualy right yeah,because Yavil does impact and when you changes your sleep at changes, R, yoursort of out of your rhythm, Yeah E, don't go this. They don't do the thingsyou do to prepare yourself, I'm sure it's real, but like it just a matter oflike. Is it so real that you know it spurs you to go? Take an action on that.Like you know, that's where the line is.

I mean, like ha on the teams to it'snot so much the times. Sure I mean you have to look at the team, it's kind oflike going back in some of these stats you're talking about earlier you're digging into you know some pastresults that no one who's playing that day was barely even born when you'reStillin, Yos, you're still pulling staffs, FO, sure, n yeah, that's kindof a weak. I don't know yeah, like you know, football from an anlexsPerspectiveis, actually the hardest of the major for sports one, becausethere's smaller sable size, there's only sixteen games a season versushundred sixty two in baseball, so TIR's a sample size problem and also thesport of footballs chainged. So much that, like it's very difficult tocompare like the game in the s of t e es, demenals, Ruale changes reallyright pact, and so like it's hard to sort of like you know, if you've got adata point from like the S Tyou're trying to use to you know use as a Dada point to predict. What'sgoing to happen now, it's that signals a little bit weak and so baseball. It'seasier basketball, Asier football 's the hardest, but you know which is basically why,like you look at like baseball baseball was the precursio all this. You knowthe David Atlinnis people and the money ball types all the way back in sort ofthe mid Ns that was a while ago. Basketball is almost a hundred percentanalyx space. You look at the rockets with Dalel Morey, very, very an likespace, and football is just you know, definitely behind the other sports,because you know like it's: a Little Bit, O k, kind of n old schoolmentality like and I've had discussions with different teams where they kind oflooked at me. Like you N WHO's. This nerd, like you, know, like you, neverplayed football like you know. How can you come in here and tell me how Ishould Brun my team or who wants your draft or what place I should call, and so there is a little bit ofredisace in the football world, but you W, it is definitely changing. I think Ithink, with now with football, you know they're putting RFI detexern oracking,all that DAA YEP, that down to MINUSIA yeah of like every movement, but thething is is that I think they've collected it for so long now they don'treally know how to use it yeah. You know they haven't released it the NFL,and so that's really hard for for them o. They don't know how to use it andthey don't just want to release it sucause, it's not only if let's say youhave an RFI DTAG on a defensive end rigt, it's not necessarily. Let's saythat he got one sack, but he had you know how many times was he close thisto the quarterback in that whole game? You know compared to everybody else.You know, or you know tackles you know, because ther'r stats, like you know,there's a tackle there, TIFA loss and all that, but he might have been rightthere at the ball every time all game, soser productivity was high yep justbut it wasn't in this, the normal statthat, you wer sure yeah. You know,there's a sort of Comon maxum the data wor, which is garbage and garbage outwhich is like if the qualit o y data isn't very high, then the quality ofthe analysts, the analysis of that data won't be very high, and so you knowyeah like there probably is a lot of data they're collecting, but whetherthat's useful date as a different story, like you know, just because you havesome information. Doesn't mean it's going to ultimately be predictive ofwhat you want, and so you know, I don't think in football. You'll have arevolution like you. Had I basketball again like look at the Rock ins likeall they do is shoot three tis either dungster threes, dunks or threes and y.You won't see. AU team like dramatically change around like insomeony, start passing the ball. Ninety percent of the time like NFL, won'thave that change because that's probably getting too far away but, likeyou will see them like going on forth down Mor. You will see them. You know making small adjustments tolike maybe go to water sense more like so. It's to to me incramental changes.I don't think the game itself will dramentically change and I think you'llreally see a change. The way people evaluate players for drafting andscatting purposes. I thing that's really where a lot of analyics is mostuseful for NFL. So let's go back allright, so you go to Carnegie Mailand Yep. You were there four years, Yep five year, five ears to okay, so fiveyears, then after carnege melon, where did you end up yeah? So I went out toSilicon Valley. You know like any sort of tech person. You have this. Thestars in your eyes about Solkon Valley, so I went out to California were forYahoo for about two years and then a couple, my friends from CNU had a startup that I joined called sponsell and I was there for three years. But then youknow, like you know my family's on the East Coast and a lot of my friends ereon the east coast, you Kno, when you do computer science. Sometimes you have asegment of people who go on Wall Street instead of going on tech, so I hae abunch of friends or were on Moll Street and you know, like I'm east coast, Goy,my family's east coast, so I moved to New York about a decade ago and I'velived in Brooklyn ever since. But you know I've always been the entrereeraltype. You know back when I was a kid. I was the kid who had the lebonade stands.I was the kid you know like that, Dasn't who I was, and so you know evenback when I was working a Yahoo. My first job at of school I was like Jesusis too big like in this is, like you know, just too combersome, it's toosort of corporaty for me, and so I always had in my head that Iwanted to start my own company because you know, like you know I right now anknow if you guys Whoan, n audio cand, see this. I'm must runing a Teshir andGeans, I'm a particularly formal guy, and so I never wanted to sort of likewake up by an alarm and wear a suit and get in the office at nine like that wasreally never me. So I always knew I wanted to start a company, but you knowI neverealy had the resources to do it until I was on. I want to be amillionaire yeahtels about that yeah.

What's that whole process of applyingfor the show? Okay, so so what happened was again me being a Insur? I used to readthe pistbord post cazette every single day online, not like the paper versionright just to kind of, like you know, get a sensewhat was going on back HolmTNAW. I was reading an article and like somewhere the botdonis article. Therewas little I blur that said, oh by the way like who wants to be a millionaireis coming back on the air. If you want to troy out for the show call thisnumber and I was like okay. Well, I'm pretty good trivior I'll call thisnumber and it wasn't like an audition or anything like that. It was basicallyyou call in, and it's like a like a quiz, and so we'll ask you, like you,know, put these Michael Jackson albums in order, if I'm latest to earliest abe like okay, one would be thriller and two would be bad and whatever and youse the touchtone to answer the question, and so I answered fivequestions. I guess I got them right. They're like congratulations like now.You know like leave your name and number and if you're selected to be inthe show well we'll let you know I'm like okay cool whatever, and so likenine months later, it was like a pretty long amount of time. I remember I wassitting at my desk at the at the place. I was working in the time and I getthis number from like a call from number Ri and reconnize Iwas, like youknow, two on one Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah, and normally that happens. Idon't answer it because it's like it's usually spam or something like that.But, like I don't know what made me answer it I was like. Are you know whatlike this could be something important I answered it and they're, like youknow, pick up the phone like hi. This is so one so from ABC, like you've, eenselected to Beon the show, and I'm like I almost forgot about it. I was likelike Itolike Yeahi was like what do you mean its like okay, well, you're, goingto be on Ho want to be a millionaire. Tell us what date you like to come inof your taping, and so I picked it's actually really enough. It's prettyclose. I think tomorrow is the ten year anniversary of the taping or maybe tsthe tenuar anniversary when it was there, but like it was about a decadeago and yeah like I just showed up the studio and they put me into makeup, andso that was there was not like pre interviews, they didn't know o have tosend in a video or like you know, that show was kind of like jeopardy and that,like they kind of just wanted, smart people, yeah, like like theyd't,necessarily want someone like who was like Super Zubrant yeah, like they kindof just wanted to see, because what's best for them is someone winning amillion dollar like that's the best market they can do and Sol. I thinkthey just basically just wanted to get some spie people in there sfor you soyou went in whether it was pretty soon after that yeahyes be like two weeks orthree weeks, and so you get on ad set and then like is it regis? Was He er asRedi EAS Raisa like Reseis, like five two hundred other erer met Regis, soyou know they basically like the co things they told me was like don't lookat the camera and I like don't like at the lights s, I just kind of stay inthe moment, but whenever rejust stands up, let him stand up first, becauseyou're going to tower over him so like it just just ort f like make sure yougot like the you know, like you're sensitive of that brea is going to lookweird on camera. That's funny, so you have to give a lifeline yeh right,so who's your life, one of my buddies from college from Coll Yeah, and they also had a celebrity phona friend,who was Guen IFEL. who was political commentator for PBS right, and I askedthe audience once on a question but ended a blocking way with a hundredousand dollars, which was what was your question that I actually go? Rememberit it was. It was something about the movieendless love like is like like. Basically, it was like what was theprotagonist name Fror, the movie I' Mest Love, and I was like that. Witthecame out like four years fir. It was born sothats, no, like you, knowver,Brook Shields and right yeah in as the Blond Guy Yeah Chris Chrisopher Atkinsor something or I don't know I no in W shoulhave been your life yeah. I saw the question I was like okay, Idon't know that like so like, I wasn't Gointo Guess Ye. You know wha I'll,just kind of take my money and walk away, but when I got into the sea like I was likeall right. Well, you know. I knew what I wanted to do with the money. I wantedto start a company. If I could, and the company I wanted to start was numberfir. I had the idea already and you know I kind of just reason that for meto kind of get the product out there to kind of launch it, I would need about ayears worth of my time and for me to go quit my job and basically maintainliving expenses in New York City for a year. I would need to win about fiftythosen Ollar for me to feel comfortable, doing that and minus taxis. That'sactually winning a hundred thousand dollars yeahthat's tax, a fifty percent,so once I got to a hundred thousand like Youcal, actually see it on thetable. You could see me just like let out this huge Axhale r there, because Iknew no matter what happened like regardless of one of the question. Iknew the next question or not. I was atherdy that yoere there. So when I sawthe question- and I didn't know it- I was like whatever like I'm just goingTa Wat. Did you have any any lifelines left now? Look like I hadid down tofift fifty meaning like it was either arc or Bor dealer had it like Le, likeI knew it wasn't two of them yeah at wasn't going to guess it was yeah. Itwas way too much for a risk, and so yes, I won the hundred thousand dollars andI basically the very next day walked into my job and like talkd to my Bossasaid. Look, you know like I like it here, but you know I got to go like youknow, there's only you know I would equivocate being on the show tobasically like logging into your...

...account one day and all of a suddenthere's a hundred thousand dollars it wasn't there yesterright like, but likeno yeah, I remember in nopely they tha card, like the bank error in your favorright, that's basicall! What O dont like yeah, quick dod they pay. I gotthe check like a physical check like I think, couple days later W and it was for the full hundred thousanddollars. So I talked to an accountand and Theye, like you got to pay taxes onthat. So, like don't go spending a hundred, housanddollar because you're going to have to so, like I kind of like you know, likeyou know, breathe a little bit. My family wantedme to come back home to Pittsburgh and put down a mortgage and buy a house andall day, I'm like you know, because so how long were you thinking of numberfire Befoh I've had that idea, prety much all my life really because Ialways wanted to work in sports and I always wante to work in tech, and youknow what always sort of frustrated me about sports, and this is like not aknock on the estive Max Mas, this Skap aloses of the world, but you know whenyou watch a sports center or you're reading advice about fantasy sports. Somuch of that advice is qualitative. It's like hey! I think the cowboys aregoing to do that. I think that Ar Roga is going to do that and for me thatjust didn't make sense, because if you have all this information available,why wouldn't you go and use that information and kind of like try tofigure out things? And you know so it's something I alwayswanted to do, and you know whether you're just a steelers fan on wantsknow something interesting about Ben Rathisburger, whether you're a coachwho wants to know you know what some of the opposing teams tendencies are,whether you're a fantasy sports player or one now. Do I pick AOR b. You knowall that stuff is basically a data driven decision, and so I wanted tobuild out a system which allowed me to kind of you know unlock the mysteriesof what's going on because you know, maybe, twenty years ago a company likenumber fire wouldn't have been possible because the computing power wasn'tthere to go and do tho things. I need to do, but you know I was like at theright time where you know clockyputing was coming available and greakepetingwas coming available, and so it was sort of like a lot of things werecoming together and I was like I gotto do this now or else I'm going to gocrazy, so yeah, I just I just kind of went for Itd and it worked out. So Ilike to name number five. I so I've heard get story about that. So I didn'tknow what to name it, and so what I did is I basically wrote a script oncomputer, where I matched up a group of prefixes like number and stat, and youknow like math and then a bunch of suffix is like fire and eent, and youknow like lovely Hes, very likecom, Therei and so thi script, basicallypair it up. One of the prefixes and on the Sufixk is and then made a queeryout to see if the com version was available and so out of all thosepremutations. The ONLYCOM that was available was number firecom. That's Oony one that's available yeah. I was like I actually kind of like that name:ECAUSE, it's pretty cool, sodron yeah. It worked out. It worked out. You knowwhat, if your numbers are on fire, Youryeah, usually doing pretty goodyeah right the logo. We have islike. Basically, I e LIKEA football. That'son fire. It was like I like that. Logo probably cost me five dollars. I gotlike a clipart of a football and a clip bard of like a flame it Wasi put in eGuy o was on a hockey pat yeah. Well, I mean like we do have a couple differentversions of it like we Sol called number fire, but like on our hockeysection, it's like a hockey pock. That's like a this flaming trail, soyou start number fire who's. The first person you call it Joinou. The veryfirst person I called is the guy who's. Still with me is my chief famlist andKeith Golner Keith Goldener is even more of a mathner than I am and he'slike an be offended wmy. I say that do probably laugh Wen yo. You know he wasright out of northwestern and had intern. For I think, the seventy sixersand an intern for ESPN- and you know he was really really ahead of the gameabout analynics and you know I think he turned down a job with the eagles tocome work for me, because you know, I think you know when you work in the field of analytics,you could work for one team and, like all your work, sort of cinstrainedinside of this little box or you can, you know, kind of like Wer for cominglike mine and try to influence the entire industry, and so you know hetook a pretty big risk because know at the time we were just a like just e. Itwas just me: We didn't have an office, yet we didn't have any VC financing. Wedidn't have a business model. We have any of that, but I guess I'm a prettygood salesman. So Right Mon he was the first one and H TAT game, a couple:Iron TDANC, yeah ye eah bottom, like a Prier, Mestpoot Jersey. I I oke allright. Let me let's go to work, so it's pretty interesting number firewith all the annalytics. So when you guys grab that ANALEC, it's alreadybeen produced for you and you're, just putting it in right, so you're takingit from the teams, a stat, yeah, think Itsa sort of like way describe. It islike what we're getting in is basically just the raw information and so we'reingesting play. Tha play information, we're injesting basic statistics andwwe're. Creating is dereatives of those statistics, and sothe main example I use is we use a in football. We use sustistit calledexpecteve points. What expected points basically means is, let's imagine two scenarios. You gotone scenario where Gusferot the...

...quarterback throws for a fifteen yardson a third and twenty, and then you got another scenario where Gust FRORH atthe quarterback throws for three yards on a third and one. Now, in the firstscenarioo, you threw for fifteen yards on paper that lookd so much moreimpressive at doing for three yards, but in the second scenario because werethrowing one, you had a first don conversion and therefore you increasedyour team's chances of continuing to drive and scoring points, and so, ifall you're looking at is numbers you're going to think all that fifteen yardplayer was more important, but actually the threee year player was moreimportant. And so you know that's an example of how just straight numbersisn't going to tell you the context of what's happening. And so, when you'sexpected points at any point in a drive, you know you've got a certain amount ofprobability that you're going to score a field goal or score a touchdown inwhatever, and so, as your team gets closer to closer to the endzone. Yourrespective points goes up and so expected points allows you tounderstand. You know how a certain player influences his team'sopportunity to score points and, by extension, win the game, and so youknow there are a lot of players in the NFL who may have like five thousandpassing yards, but actually have low expected points because those passingguards came in garbage time or they they came on. Third and twenty erendsef e feel Li right. So you know a better way of looking at performance isno not so much the five thousand yards. But how did this player impact? IsTeams Chances of winning and excoring points, and so you know will and jest alot of the very basic information, but well go through our data systems, ourmodels and spit out these more advance statistic. So in Baseball Lik, it's there's adifference between badding average and op or slugging or Woba, and so we'rebasically almost inventing statistics that help us kind of understand thingsin the way know we choose to think about them. So has that been hard foryou to watch the pirates and those tatit yeah I mean, like you know it'sdefinitely frustrating like literally last night there was a tweetfrom the gym of the mets and the and the and the GM said. Basically like thedecisions we make. You know ninety five percent of the time the analigs guysthink we're doing the wrong thing, but you know we're professionals and we'regoing to shoot from the God and we're going to lik and, like it tries mecrazy to see stuff like that because, like like analetus, isn't magic like like wheno're making the stuff up. Lik like this is what the number say and, like youknow, I understand the reticence of like you know. If I'm an GM I would'want some analigs guy to tell me like everything. You're doing is wrong. Youhave to do it this way, but you know to just ignore the numbers and ignore thedata and go strictly from the got like you wouldn't do that in any otherindustry right Liye. If I went like to Wall Street and said, I'm going ta goby Apple, because you know wow that blue iphone looks really cool, like I'dget leuht out of the Rooam Yeah like like y. u know like in a power planit's like well, I think we should increase the power because you knowGees, like you know, a lot of people using the receas. These days lit like,like that's, not acceptable to make a decision that way, but for some reasonin sports it is yeah. We've done it this way, forever: Yeah, NO GOINGTO TA!You know theanin comes down to well. We played you yeah yeahall right yeah, like K, O go backto computer lab yeawe won championships before yeah. Nobody was doinganalyticsbacand when you did. Yeah might have been totally different gameif there was linics in the, and so, if you have like, like a football teater,fifty three players, Yep, do you take individual stats like howfast ti Rano forur and then give each player Yep and kind of their ownanalytic, Gep, and then that way, because David, I'm talking about this-that if your team you want to give you want to give the cheat team a chance towin Shirp like a Chowon fandl that that Davin Dav mentioned is that you guysare predicting like some of the outcomes already wholeway through theseason hip of the game yeah. But what about? How does that change when theplayer gets hurt? Ut Yeah? So like so you know. Let's say that I was predicting thesteelers to win ten wints this year. Well, James Conner gets hurt. Then youlike move inget Jelan Samuels by moving in Jailan Samuels L, your change aroundthe the play calls we expectn te run. You change around the expectedefficiency on those play calls, and so there Risan adjustment that gets made.Like you know, it's there's a mathematical form lit toit because you're going from one asset that has a certain amount of fintecy toanother one, so that might adjust it down from ten to eight point five, sothere are methadollies were doing that, but yeahit's you know it's tough, because it there's so many moving parts right,yeah football has to be the toughest al. By Far Yeah I mean you know one of thethings that I think in football is historically difficult to do. Is Youknow it's easy to do analytics for skill players like quarterbacks wiereceivers running backs it's hard to do it for like a leftguard yeah, becausehow do you do e? You know you have to combine a little bit of qualitativewith it. You know so you have the the quantitative and that you know theright guard pulled around and James Conner ran for four yards, and so Ihave to assign some of that place success to the right guard, but you dohave to look at tape a little bit to...

...say all right. You know knowing thatthe successal play happened. If I look at the tape, did the right guard dowhat he was supposed to do and if so then, okay give him the credit for it.If not, then maybe you only give a half credit. So there is a level ofqualitative to it that doesn't really exist, inh other sports, and so, but ifyou had the numbers from the RFI D tags, you wouldn't even need to watch Churp,because you just have data yeah, it would be in number four sure you couldsay you know. Rightguard is yeah seventy six and then we're going towatch his exactly right. His everything that he does a all of sudden there's aBliz he's supposed to pick up ine line back how tha I got a sack. So you knowit's yea o. How do you score that yeah? Like the the main problem in, like youknow, I SJOUSD say like I've been out of the game for a couple years because,like you know, n t like hit being the CPO of Fandal like I've got a hundredthings to worry about, and so you know the anlegs guys on. My team are theones that are probably more in depth than I am so you know I've lost my fastball a little bit. You know the main problem with you rif. I D stop rats,yeah, H par for thecyeah yeah, like with he rfid stuff, likeyou're tracking that stuff on like a second by second basis, and so in agiven game of Football Lik. You wight get a terrabito data about that, and sothat's a lot of data to process. That's a whole lot of noise and you're tryingto find the signal amongst that noise, and so you know computing power. Justalmost isn't there yet to be able to come, I a like it might be, but likeit's still in early stages, yeah, and so I think you know right now. Theability to collect data is kind of outpacing. The ability to do usefulthings with that data and an that's going to catch off. That's just moreslaw, but yeah like on skill player or like non skill players like guards andlinemen, and you know, win linebacker it's harder than is for Schol player.It's Stouf like hall of fame lines, like I think, Alen Fanika as a footballplayer, one of the best to ever play, but H, it's all like boy. He was reallygood y. A you know, t mean there was no, I mean like like. So it's real easy toput in pancakes. I Guess Yeah Yeah, you know it's re. It's the same thing likeJo Jkobe, like all the PEOPLEWHO are fans to the redskin. So don'tunderstand why jojkoby was just a monser of a man was a great line, anone of the hogs. It's not in hall of fame, like people yeah and he's beenput up so many times. I don't know if he can ever go in, which is crazy. Younow and it's like there's wheres mart monk like like what he's done is likevery, very clear. It's like reception, touchdowns right exactly for thosefimemen, an a dealimen like dven D, Liman right you get sacks so that itgives you a statistic that you can follow yeap, but that's that's prettycusing stuff, like that ea well, Tellus Tellus, now from number fire to fan.How did that happen? Yeah I mean you know, with the rise of what Fandell was doingwhen they first started h with daily fhantasy sports. You know daily fanasysports was kind of you know like it still is. You Know Someone Complex Thoplay like you know. You have to pick players, you toh aline to a salary capand there's some some strategy that goes into it, and so you know withnumber fire, as we saw that industry emerging, we wanted to build tools tohelp players play and so there's kind of like a natural. You know Nicerelationship, we had with Fandala draftings at the time and yeah. Likeyou know, like one day, we got me email from someone who workd for Fando andsaid Hey. You know now we're gonna. We want to move in a direction where youknow we want to signal to our users that we really do want them to win moreand to have access to tools and have the best information possible. Wouldyou guys be interested in kind of something more than just a kind of likea a casual relationship, and I said yeah sure, and so we had hey, ended upperching perching purchasing us about it. But four years ago now, N, it'sbeen great, like you know, most of my team s still there and a lot of the tools that you might useon. Fandal like we built out, you know different ways of drafting players.Different ways of you know making life scoring easier like a lot of the Ipthat we built a number fire just slaughtered right into what fandal wasdoing and D. it's been an amazing rime. So do you have you ever been approached by aprofessional team? Oh Yeah Yeah realexe yeah, so we acally done a lotof stuff. You know I don't want to name names because Isa but yeah, like youknow, What's interesting about it, is you know we can be that quantitativesecond opinion an when you have an entire room of scouts, whether it's youknow food drafting or for Free Agency. You know those scouts are going to bepretty qualitative, and so, if you want a quanitative second opinion, we'redefinitely there. For that. You know. The other thing is likeimagine: You're an agent and you're representing a player when you go in tohave negotiations with the team, that team probably has an analytics guy, whokind of goes in there with the data, and so, if you're, an agent who doesn'thave data on your side and you're in a disadvantage, because they're going tobe using the data to come up with as many different data points as possibleto try to convince o you that you're not worth what you think you're worthand so like. We have a a couple players that we work with like trying to getthem the best contract, because you...

...know we would charity, fix someinformation. That would say like they're, actually worth this and theother time e have information, and so therialy is a lot of analytics and likeOu teams and players that we do do one sort of a consulting basis yeah. So theplayers side would be very interesting because there's there's differentthings, you can profile player as hip. What their makeup is their emotionalside te tirical side, all that t what their talent is and then there's thestats that come from that dont, what you do and and for me, as a player, Iremember so many exit like interviews right with your coaches. Yep, like theseasons over you know, go talk to your couch and then they go well. What doyou think you need to improve on? I don't know. Probably everything right.You know I don't know I need to you know I'm good at Throwin the balltwenty five years own field, or you know I have a big arm. You know I loveto stand in a pocket. I probably love to improve on my scrambling or whatever,but if I have those staffs Yep, you know an the coach says: Look last yearto this year, your first town, you know you, through this many percent of firstdown balls Li. Let's bring that up. Let's Work Oun, let's give you somereal stats to work on, because we know we all want to be bigger, faster, anstroledy and fell. That's how you survive Yep. Were you want to lean downor you want to do all these things, but the numbers of stats? Are you talkingabout like, like that really hit home when you said like hey through afifteen year pass, but I didn't get the first town, but through three our pastgot the first down makes me think of Tom Brady. You know o his t. t that'stat for him is probably through the roof compared to a lot of sure peoplein the league yeah like it's all bit efficiency. You know like at the endthe day like you want to maximize the amount of positive expertation you haveper play, and so you know maybe there's some quarterbacks like Lik jofacco, OrdMatthew Stafford can throw te ball from here to West Virginia. But if he're notmaking t e the correct read of t e the right read, then you know like all thearm crack in the world doesn't matter, which is why I think, overlong enoughtime frame. The quarterbacks that probably have the longest pose terbalecareers ar the ones that make the right decisions. The one that understand thecontext and understand that you know I don't need ten yards now, ony, threeand so making the right call making the right you know like reeds, like is, isreally important and that could be informed by analytics. Do you thinkthat the personal side of sports, the the individuals that you guys arepeople are playing and trying to bed on and win money Yeph an individuals I,but they have a personal life too? Do you think that plays a role in anyof this it's to? Because if yeah you know, I had three babies when I yehplaying for the Redskins, you know there were nights that I was sleeplessand Yow. You know things happen: they're, sick and you're dealng withyour wife and there's altose things, and but to me that, doesn't you know,take into count into the analytic, Sid Yeah. I know that. That's very true Ithink like that is sort of a whole in the game. So to speak. I think you know from our perspective it gets a littlebit overrated in the minds of you know. Sort of like people tend to overthink,for example. So if there's a game that snowing, for example, people will thinkoh well, it's snowing that Goann be able to froll the ball and like in mostcases, people overrate that, like actually snowing, doesn't affect thontthe ball that much only in extreme examples done it and so, to some extent,like you know, some of the environmental stuff that you can'treally quantify gets a little bit overrated. But there are things thatwill never have transparentiton well, never know that you had like a a newborn, I'm not going to know that Libron James only got four hours asleep. Lastnight lit like yeah there'se, certain things that we're not going to know. Soall we can really do is do the best we have with information we have available,and so so you take so dave, and I re part of the company here in Pittsburgh.It's called Arc Tian X for partners with camente family and it's an APPthat measures and menitors your brain performance. Sure, and it doesn't it'san objective test that takes about five minutes and it lets. You understandyour short term memory. Your executive decision kill that now you get a scoreat the end. We don't diagnose anything o any of that and I always thought Ialways try to get into the sports industry, because I think it's verypowerful to understand your brain performance like if you have thatnumber yeth like if I have two quarterbacks short ones, a hall ofFamer and all pro, and then I have another guy and their performanceliterally says. There's a difference. Yeah like I think, that's an intangiblethat that isn't out there yet yeah Nover sure- and I know I've talked toseveral players. I don't want to use it because they don't want it to determine in a negative way theircontrast, surer, not Gen. I think no, by team, a predraft tool tuse for teams,yeah I've talked to the CONMERSE- Is K, I think great, to be in a COMBIE SRS,it's a more of a predictor of who that person is an like, say the wonder. LikeYeah Li yeah, like the vertical yeah, I think the more formation we haveavailable, the the richer more accurate ou prediction is going to be, I think,Kno, whether it's brain performance, whether it's blood pressure, like youknow, I know the NFL- is making a big push in awear blls and so not just rfid to track movement butlike to track, like you know like how fast you're going like what your bloodpessure is thing like that with the Mornformation we have the better it'sgoing to be so you know I can understand, like from the NLPperspective, why they might not want rest ort of stuff, but yeah, like youknow, the more information we have.

It's just going to be yeah when moreOuov just well. I always thought about this day with Thea like if, if I havejust get up in the morning- and I play it, I'm going to have a certain scoreyea now what have happened? If I go to full exhaustion, I've been running andcome in and play it. What what? What is my score and full exauston compared?How does my brain function I in all of that? Fourth quarter versus pregame?Well, I always say I always give this example that I've seen so many guyscome and go ing the NFL, and you look at him- and you say this guy jumpshigher than anybody on a team. wher he's fastery budhy. You know, and I'veseen guys faster than Daril Green, but they don't play as long as Te Granright, so they're missing something and they jump offside. Yes, sure SR or teyeaction time is bad they're missing a piece and that's what we just APP. Ialways wanted to get it in there, because it'll find out what that limit.That's exactly right! I mean like tha the when you were saying that the onesport I thought of n anything else is tennis, because you look at certainathletes like federar and a doll, a joke of Itte streeand Williams, likethe mental toughness you have to have to be the lead tennis players throughthe roof. Every single point you have to have immense focus. If you messsomething up, the last point get it out of your head. This is new rightit andthe players wo have the most success in tennis. Have that cognintability tojust like always maintain focus? Always you know like just maintain that mentaltoughness and that's a skill set that's very difficult to Scoul, it's verydifficult to souce out, like you know, going through like a combine interviewand when you're talking to players like you're trying to get your head aroundthat, but there's no real way to do it, but if there was someway to quantifythat that'd be a massively valuable thing, yeah we kind of do that a littlebit Ye. You know it's just interesting. It's been, it's been for two years, trying to figure out howto do that. You know because you have entrepreneural spirit. I was so excitedto leave like the game that I love transition. I coached for a little bit,then all of a sudden were in something that could play a factor sor that whichis exciting, but you know it's so new that Yeah Sports Secondmon is reallyinteresting. I go to that. Myt conference every year, like the slowne,with the big NERD FASTC oether Andyet. We see stuff there, all the time likenew helmits and like balltracking and basketball- and you know, there's likelike different shoes and like the the amount of people who are thinking aboutthat to me, is really cool because you know lain a day like sports is just youknow, hat you kN. It's just like having fun your throwing a ball around, butlike the amount of people who are thinking about how to get that. Onepercent advantage that two percent advantage and there's AL whas new ideas.It's yeah, it's really cool, so you're a fandol now yeah. So what? When you merged number five e handlenow, what is your your job, yeah soday? What are youdoing yea, so I'm e Tho frodoptor of Fandal, so for lack of better phrasing.I basically decide what we build and when so you know, obviously with Passma being repealed and sportsgambling a being available in a statebustate basis. That's taking up alot of our ttention thatd sort of why I'm in Pensylvania right now but yeah. So you know, I think what wewant to do is you know with Fandal we want fandal to be sort of a one, stopshop for any kind of like fun sports games, that someone could play on theirphone or on the computer, and so maybe that's fantasy sports. Maybe thatsports betting, maybe that's horse racing. Maybe that's you know, maybe intime Yo'll build out a trivia, APP or maybe in time will build out. You knowlike a like a madenstyle game. The boy want to do is rerealize that you know.Sports are something that, like so many people love and you know when you'rewatching a game. It's you know, imagine t hat to be the ice cream. Well, theCherry on top is fantasy sports and maybe the wip cream is having a bet onthe game, and so we want to build out these sort of like really coolexperiences and for someon Ho just sports. An like me. It's perfect, butyeah, I think you know like Fanel, has about, I think, were north withthousand employees. Now it's really just sort of like andthere's all this stuff. We want to do w and I kind of have to decide all right.You know we're going to do this first and we're going to do this next andwe're going to go into this market after that and it's you know, I workvery close to with our engineering team and our executive team and justbasically decide what we built yea there's a lot of, I would say, there'sa lot of bookies who are Reala: whyt Wyyea,that's Howheyun, Jogot, tenont, salers, righ, t's Greatyo, just full your phoneout and like ITN. Well, it's a matter of couuere protection. I mean you knowwith Uncle Joe down the street like, if, like you win big Ho Lo Tud he's notcalling you back right right, you know so saves your knea caps. Yeah E, like youknow, one thing, I think that you kN W likewe take very very seriously. You Know Li e, obviously we're excited aboutwhere the markets going and how big it is. We take responsible gaming very,very seriously. You know we have a lot of models and a lot of like you know.You know we can proactively tell wonewy thing.Someone is, has problematic behavior, and so, if you 're bedding or playingTFS like tendos a week, ten dolars a week, ten dollars weegl of a Suddni's,a thousand like we'll flag that immediately yeah, and so like there's abit of a perception that, like you know that that were not paying attention ofthat stuff or we don't care. We actually do care quite a bit. Whatwould happen if that was flagged?...

You'R would be sort of like you get acall from Ar teame your your account will probably suspended like you go into sort of like a sort oflike a probation yeah. Something like that. You know because we're in thisfor the long term, you know like with stardops, especially sort of what'sgoing out with like left a nuber and stuff like that, like it may kind ofseem like startups just there to make money now and kind of like worry aboutthe future later, but you know I want Fandi will be in business for tenfifteen. Twenty thirty foot well like Lil, be like the IBM of this, and sothe only way we do. That is that we take a very long term reproach, and youknow be take things like responsible gaving, very, very seriously, take overelationships with the state regulators, Var very seriously. You know like wenever cut in a corners like we never ever push boundaries like you know. Wedo things to a tea, because we want to do things right. We want our users tofeel safe and we want our relationships with. You know the state, regulatorsand everyone else to be as above Bor as possible. You guys had to be prettyexcited when the government said that you know betting is no sure it. I meanlike it's like. That's like a home, runir yeah. Well, you, like you, knowwe built up really great brand on the fantasy side, you know being that sortof mobile digital like fun sports brand, and so when you know benting cameonline first was New Jersey. Now it's Pennsylvania and there's like elevenstates now which have some some level legal betting. You knowwe had that brand already, and so, if we're going up against an MGM orecisorslike we like our chances, because you know weve proven ourselves to be likeyou know the the technology company in the space we're not a brick and mortarlike we're, not a legacy company like we're a bunch of technologists andengineers and designers that are building up products, not just you know,casino operators. Well, this has to be nightmare to the offshore, the AntigueGlood and all that yeah, because it's a very gaen, very recognized name, fandolyeah that now not legitimizes a trirt but gives you a perception yeah. I've definitely gotten into trouble for,like you know, being very candid about my feelings about the ofshore guys andlike definitely like you know, there are people in turn of the fan. Do oldhere like nowall right? Take it easy. Maybe right but look you know again. Ilook at Usture if I'm a consumer protection perspective like if you usean offshore site like those sites aren't legal like they use the argumentthat, if they're not explicitly illegal, then they must be legal and that's aridiculous argument, and so yo remember havping in poker, like you know, likefive or six years ago, like everyone was using party poker and poker starsand whatever, and then the governent went in to Shud these sights down Haneveryone who had money on those sites didn't get that money back until likeway later, if it all like, I don't want that to happen, and so you know if youuse an offshore sigt like that, is possible likely to happen at some point,because it's illegal right, and so you know I don't have much love for thoseguys, and that's also why, like you know like, as far as the way fanaloperates like we operate things like by the books like just we never cote incorners. We have very open and honest relationships with state lawmakers andregulators. You know we're in this for the long hall and we want to do thingsin this sustainable life. Have you guys? Do you guys ever talk about? Okay? Wehave to be careful that we're not approached by athletes, don't shorteano game, a hundred percent yeah hundred percent, like like we say thatvery very seriously: We've got in the same way. We've gotmodels that help us understand when someone could be problematic gambler. We also have models to justyou K, W determine all kinds of of fraud, whether it's my laundering,whether it's someone who might be a player like if someone just kind ofcomes in one day and just puts fiftyzen dollars on pit like that's going toraise, he re flag right right so, like there's all kinds of models that dothat, Wut like we have in the same way that my team has a lotof data guys doing analytics. We've also got a bunch of dayto guys lookingat things like that, just to make sure that there, at any problematic patternstheverydady to Cattu. How are they? How are the LINEES Determined d? Do youguys use? Third Party, that or how does that work yeah, so Fando group ispartially owned by a European company called Patty Par Bat, fair and PattyPart betfars been a operator in Europe for twenty thirty forty years and sowas been really in Tremellento. Our success here in the states is we'vebeen able to pair the strength of the fandal brand ind our ability to buildproducts with a lot of the operational backand they bring to the table,because if we were just going to come to the market as as a new company, wehave to rethink and like to like learn all that stuff on the fly, whereas theyhad stuff out of the box. That was like okay, like y know, they've got anentire risk and trading team that sets those lines like they know exactly like.If Aron Rogers wasn't going to play tomorrow, they would be like okay, letthat line just move them three to five like they have all that stuff sort ofOuta box, and so we've been able to marry those two things. It's one of themain reasons why we've been as successful as we've been well, it'sjust incredible how of how close they are so o? It's amazing, like you know,even the over and Underyeah e just are just just crazy with that ithink that what you guys are doing isincredible, because you're taking...

...something that everybody's been doingfor a long time. You know with UN Joke Yep, whoever it is. You know we've beendoing that, but now people have been waiting for it to be, Oh sure, gitimateI've been amazed at the demand. Like you know, it's been, you know: We've eta retail location like a like a physical sportsbook at the metowlandsor Ol the giants, An jets play and that place is a madhouse on Sundays. Lit Layou non even somthing like like a Thursday like Earlye, a Wednesday forbasketball. That place is a bad house, and so you know it's one of thosethings like I kind of equivocated to like you know like marijuana little bit,which is like look. This is happening, whether you admit it or not. Right, like people aregoing to do this, so you know, as opposed to just saying, like you know.Oh it's Llegal and pretending is not happening. Why not just legalize it andsay you know what like wholl take a cut of it, because then the state gets thetaxes, but then the consumers get consumer protection. They get. You knowrapidable brands behind it. They get. You know like FAW protection behind it.They like it like it's really a win, win. wher, you know H, has a consumer.You know you're going to get paid, you know your aiment. Is You fan wet toopen account is really going to be credited yeah. You know it's yeah, allthe stuff that you're afraid of andoff. Sure E is not afes been a business forfor ten years an like we operate retail locations. My email address isavailable to anyone who wants to go, find it, and so you should have everysingle confidence that, like if you deposit ten dollars and you win twentydollars, we're going to give you that twenty ollar there's there's no right,yeah question of that, and so I think that's the biggest thing Tan like is,like you know, there's really sort of supercharge. This is like now it'sfinally out in the open. Now it's run like an actual business and it's notuncle Joe. It's you know like an actional. You guys have issues withreal time, information at all oris that kind of pass. The point yeah! No, notreally I mean you know there as some sports which, like you know, it'stheoretically available to get advantagebut they're. Not Not really, Imean you know the latency time, so we work with stats and sports ink and alot of I proviters like we'll get the information in nano seconds like likethose those those pipes so to speak, are so quick that yeah, it's not somuch a problem anymore. So I went to my friend runs professional bullriding.Okay, all right and it's a bitch AF growing industry, it yeah bigger YEPand they change how the whole scoring is done because they had such latencyin the scoring pepse professional bullwritings all over the world theyre.Sometimes they said in the old days. It would take two weeks to get scores fromBrazil to give back, to you an say, is fig figure out who's the next you knowthe the next one up, so they changed how the sporing is done, and it's it'sinsant. Now it's incredible yeah said it's Changeable Riding Sur, it's it's grown tremendously! Is thatsomething out that you guys would get into Hoshort, like you know,probably on a monthly basis. We talk to someone like bullwriting we've had dronracing league. We've talked to, we've talked to the XFL and a AF when it wasaround, and I think for us like we want to be able to work with anyone whowants to be able to have a fantasy game around what they're doing or that'savailable. I think, as long as you've got a Datafeat, we can work from thenyou kno lit like we can have that conversation because we wed member wewent and- and it was we didn't know what to expect yeah. You know when wewent to one in West Virginia, but it was so exciting. It was like well, theyce they get mu more viewers on their Sunday show than the NHL NationalBroadcast. Yeah. I mean it's a big tow. You know yeah there's some years wewon't go like we won't go into like little league right like yeah, I o Spor, Yeahwerenodo ther, so marrikChinese type, Pey Yeahyeah, well, they're, not gonna. Do it but yeah yhigh school Spois, another good one, an for the most part like you know, aslong as we feel like like there's, there's a credible market for it. Yeahwe'll do it and you know it's been interesting. Like you know, in a lot ofways, fantasy sports and betding almost legitimizes the sport, the same waythat poker wasn't legenimized until esgn started, showing it right, and sothere probably are a couple areas where you know that are just sort of likerighe. For this, like it's a great sport to bed on it's a great sport toplay fantasy on and all that domain is going to make it all that cooler. Soone area beeve or not, that we've lot thought a lot about one of e sports,which I'm sure is you Kno, like Y, been tacking around forever. But I thinkdarts is really interesting because, like darts is like in like it's fastpaced, it's like it's great to watch from a for retreaming perspective, thestreaming rights ar somewhat inexpensive, so you might be able towatch a darts match inside of the fandal lap right and like we can wrap abedding experience around it. And so you know like we. There are couplepeople in our office, especially some of the K, guys who are just likekicking down my door being like okay, guys dart. Let's go yeah, that's greatto watch. If you ever watch it doe all yeah unbelievable and they could havelike three pints, ot still throw bulls yeah. I on' believe in the UK, likethey rent out with Hese these big convention holls a get like tenthousanddrunk people in there, watching a guy,...

...darts and like so speaking to UK. Areyou guys international yeah, so fandalism? So fanel is a part of thepatty power bed for a group, and we've got a lot of operations in Europe andso the Patty Power Bedfar brands? Have youknow pretty strong market share in Europe? Fandal is the brand we havehere in the states. In Australia we have a brand called a sports bat and inGeorgia, not Atlanta Georgia, but the Balman state of Georgia. There's a acompany called a Jar Abat. So you know having this this this worldwide. Youknow sort of portfolio allows us to sort of like share. Learnings allows usto share a common back. End allows us to have a lot ofefficiency in our processes, and so so, if I live in Africa say- and I Wan Ifollow American Sport Yep, can they get on fandoll from there now so like don'thave to use a local kaycoming for that Sel. You know. One thing the regulaarsare very very serious about here in the states is around g location. So, for example,Pennsylvania is legal for mobile sports betting, but Ohio isn't, and so theywant to make sure that if I'm walking along the border between PennsylvaniaOhio, if I'm ten feet on this side of the border in Pennsylvania, it shouldwork. But if I walt ten feet over there, it shouldn't work, and so that's alevel of like wow granularty. You have to have, because I dodn't know thatthat's unbelieveabe they're, very, very serious about that and, like you get into some weirdsituations where, like you know like what, if you know I'm in New York Cityand I'm in a ferry, that's going across the Hudson all of a tide, I'm in NewJersey, like you know, you have to be able to determine where you cross thatline n. So it's a pretty complex challenge, but I do understand wherethe states are coming from Li. They want to make sure that, like you know,if you are in Pennsylvania you're allowed to, but if you're in Ohioyou're, not because there has to do with money and Everythi there's taximplications, there's like it's something that we have to take veryseriously. What about in Canada? Are you guys in Canada, Fandal for DFS, Liy, so wat? You canplay DFS contest in in Canada, but not for betting. Yet no yeah, you could dofantasy. Yeah could yeah ye H. I think that's like there's there's someprovinces, which are you know like a little more flexible than others, butyeah. It's. You know it really seems like every other day,there's a new state or a new province or a new country that, like changedaround the law and this like in the past, like three months like you know,Illinois been moving forward. IOWAS boving forward Tennessee's been movingforward. It's been sort of like a Sunami on this stuff. So do you have tofallow that? Or do you just the legal team follows yeah. They as O is Tom Rihway. Aon, I mean like, like I'm on the emails I know what's going on, but likethe Ilegal team is on top of it now. Another reason you're in Pittsburgh isyou've just formed a partnership with Drum Tais. Yes, you have to be prettyexcited about. It's amazing. I mean you know. As a steelers fan, like you know,Drom Bedis is laes like Wat hy's, an amazing guy in to ten houzand rushinghaurs letfast russing Yaurs, but yeah Het's been great. You know we do like to partner in local areas with sort of like localcelebrities, because it's one thing just to have like a general like Ad.You know just just running on kitakay whatever, but to have drone bedis asthe local brand ambastor or Brian Westbrok in Philly or in you know, NewYork Hav it be like fil SAMs or something like that, like that carriesa lot of weights. You know what we don't do is know like. I don't wantJron Benis to say that he liked the APP just because we're paying him like weactually like did show on the appen. An litely had o muse it and ask them whathe thought, because you know like consumers are smanl enough to tell whensomeone's being inauthetic right and Jron Beddis, like he's great obeingauthetic, and he was great and some of the shots we did with him because heactually did like the APP. We showed it to him. He's like O wow. That's reallycool and Lik hewas asking us like you know, Oh wow, like how do I get to knowTe Dame like? How do I get to ou the steelers, because those are hse thingsIsrey Wot, I'm how to do it but yeah I wash the PBA. Oh Yeah Aler yeah, like Dick Eberjunoversis, parkonealaboutThatso, one of the last things we do is we call the nootel okay, the twominutes, droll all right, which I'm sure you got a lot of stats. Bon. Okay,yes, but we ask you a bunch of questions and we try to get throughthis and you can pepper the answers back to us as quick as Pais. Okay, ODav only starts good day. All right and you can't say, Fan dol for this answer,but e. what's the what's the best innovation in sports in the last tenyears, I would say I lose a little earlier, like I really like Whith. Therockets have done with the way they played the game, like it's kind of likedifferent than like way. Basketball's typically played like there's no liketwo point jumpers, but they've really changed around what I think way.basketballs plates I'd say that do you have a pet peeve, I have a pet peeve. It's qualitative sports analysts so give us an example. Yeah I mean likeI just go like like again like. I recognize the value he brings the tablebut, like I can't watch KIP BAGLAYS fror more than like thirty seconds.It's is like I like. This is so different than the way I approachthings well, you would rather watch Chana charp. Oh I'd rather watch like someone like youknow like reading a mathbook and either...

...one of those to what's the most overhyped thing insports today over hype. I think in football I think quarterbackArmstrength is the most overrated thing. Really. I Dont O no e a was ere we'reGOINGNA, READF, yeahbread firbit alot ttn La Clar, for that, like I think,accuracy is underrated relative towards armstrength right. I agree with that. Iagree with that because it goes back to t e ittle saying you know this iscovered yeah. This is ope yeah. You know what I mean yeah, but if you don'thave the arm strengths in certain situations to throw it over Tle GMSfall in love with guys who can like throw sixty yards from their knees, butthey don't care about agracy as much in they shouwd. But then you see guys likemahomes and Aaron Rodgers, who do have great arms, strink and very accurateyeah when you're both it's amazing, yeah af George ad one of the best farmsin football, but is Hehad a Motecrmarino yeah. You know it's justit's just so relative. You know, and I play with guys, like stve burline, whohad a great career, but his arm strength wasn't near with some of theother people I played with as a fan. What was your greatest sportsmemory? Oh, when the Peng as one the first only cup, Ninety one, the beatthe minsor nor stars ate nothing. I was nine, but I mean that was just amazing.You have a mullet for actually wearly enough Lik. It go backto some phones. I probably did s like back Dan like they did the bull and therattail was like a think. SRAT till you got a Retti, I might eat mabeunintentionally my mom cut my hair Antil as a Butin callyeaounintentionalatail, but that was a great memory I lived. I was interningin Pittsburgh over the Sigi grew up in Tucson, but I was in Katy K living onthe north side when the the celebration was at the point,remember people swimming across the river I mean and then going out to theairport. The going on on the parkway. The traffic was like one mile an hourpeople at kigs in Theire, amanikup Tru walking along their car drinking out ofkegs. Going to the airport. I mean it was. It was what Iiyeah that was, andthat started the diestl yeah I mean our hockey. We should just be so thankfulover the last so many years at the people that we've had playing amazing,like amazing yeahit's, just been incredible: Yeah the two draft fick andwhen they happend were his til at most amazing. So you've had an incrediblecareer. You've been with these companies have been entrepreneur likeyou wanted to be. If you go back and tell yours, a young introducing the capital, one walmartrewards card earn unlimited five percent back on everything you buy atWalmart Online. It's the perfect card for all your family is hence thisholiday season, like five percent back on the airfire Grandpa told you aboutwhen he fell asleep in his chair frymazing or five percent back on thelaptop, your sister had caroler Singto the capital, one Walmart ewards cardearn unlimited rewards, including five percent back at Walmart online. What'sin your wallet term, Ane Exclusion, sapply capital, one GNA, that's runningoutside to go play and you stop D Mo, say hey. I just want you to rememberthis one thing: What would that be? I would say that just believing yourself like, likeyou've, got this, the skills go. Do It, you know, follow your dreams and don'tlet everyone ever say you can't do something like in. I didn't really runinto that. What it wasn't like, iy people who doubted me, but you knowI've always had a lot of sort of you know self confidence and Ou when you'reencrenoil we kind of have to go and do something that you know. Maybe somepeople think you're kind of crazy. Like my own family thought it was crazy.They're, like just go by a house in Pittsburgh and kind of settle down, butyou have to believe in yourself and you have to believe in the power of sortchasing off your dreams. We love your story on who wants to be a millionaire.You hit a hundred thousand and you're like that's it. That's it e. You didn'tcare wit after that. You knew that Yeah Twna Millon yeah, but you knew youpointo. Now you can take it now. I an do it. You can Hav another step. If youwere commissioner of any League for day, what would you change? This coin t be a kind of crazy answerlike one of my Dream Jobs, other than n oneI have, which is probably my dream job. If I had my second favorite job thitwould ever want a life. I want to be the CO of USA, track and field, and Ithink, track and feel is sport that I love dearly because, like I was soserious about it and track and field relative of public perception has kindof dropped, quite a boat, and I think, there's a lot of things from a digitalperspective from reaching out to new audience's perspective that that Ithink they could do so. If I was angel for one day, I'd be the COF Yusatrackand field. I have a lot of conversations with compnies, likefandal companies like ESPN, just like figure out how to get more younger fansin just in a track and field. I think one thing about track and field, Iloved it. In the S and maybe early Nnei, there was seemed like there was morepersonalities, O stuff that you could people that you really rooted forYeustuf. I I think it's a little bit less than that yeah like it, it's beomea little bit corporate. You know it's become a little bit of no you, you cathese increditly talented athletes, but they kind of like duck each other. Alittle bit like you know you don't ot...

...like the matchups and like it's nottelevisal should be and so yeah. I would love that that'd be great. So ifyou could give our fans one analytic one thing they shouldwatch for this football season to focus on what would it be? I'm not preparedlike that type of thing about that. I would say that yeah and like this isgoing to come across as me, being the injur and like me, but like, I thinkthat people are wildly overrating, the browns right now like they are tradingthe browns in, like the best case scenario, F. What happens wheneverything goes right when the chemistry is correct, when BakerMayfield and Beckam, junior and Chob, like all you know, have the bestpossible performances like you ever show in the field and like most teams,don't just go from like four and twelve or twelve four like that, there's goingto be some growing pains. I think I read a lot of articles about how thebrowns are their favorites and THEFC, north and Etcet to etc. I am a littlebit skeptical, and so I not analytics per se but, like I thinkyou know general tone of people discussing the browns. I think s hasleen o be overrated, as he talks with an iron city, Shir yeah, right wel.Well, if your quarterback and Tay the best quarterback at slamming a beer onthe jumbo tronn in front of what forty thousand people, but that I think thebrowns have been bad for so long, then, like everyone wants them to be goodright. So, like I' kind of like you know, I want them to be good. So, likeI'm just going to imagine all these good things are going to happen andeverything's going no work out perfectly. But you know like whathappens when Ba Compunin gets injured, like what happens it. Baker Mayfield,like it's injured, like what? If you know I odabeckam junior, like he's aamazing talent like he, certainly had a lot of off the field and sort of likesure so, like you know, you can't just assume that everything is going to workout perfectly, and so I think a lot of people are sort of using that. I wantgood things to happen to Cleveland as an excuse to sort of as a so. What arethe odds on the BROWNS wilins super bowlething? I Don' think a look at h M.I would bet number fire has them at something like I'd, say, probably three or fourpercent yeahprety creetly, my guess, iagree with last one day, yeah now,there's in the WOLA statistics. Do you have a least favoritestatistic? That'soften utilized, but not very important, like mine was, and they kind of doneaway with a game winning rbis yeah. I always thought that was so hoky becausethat could happen in like the fourth enit yeah wins are typically way overrated, likewhether it's a pitcher or like a hockey goalie. I think winds, re overrated,but really I mean any counting statistic. Any statistic that is justlike counting up what happened: those are inherently going to be a little bitflawed. So can use my example about expecting points. You can have aquarterback that throws for five ousand yards and you give another quarterbackan it thrings for three thousand. It might turn out that the courtback, whohas three housand, was a much more effective and efficient quarterbackthan the guy who has five sand and so like whether it's hall of fame, whetherit's like all star, whether it's like you know just talking about who thebest players are people overrates. Just counting statistics like how many ofthis, how many that would those get overrated in eficiency and you know, sort of advantatistics getonterrated. We had to talk about Joe Namos right right, you know herall theFAMOR and you dig down into statistic: Yeah 'm, not even close to lot. I lookat tick. Rache I mean like, like terror. Bradshaw's number is like, like he's, got more picks than tds inhis career, it's like within, like one or two yeah and like you, look at himand like and compare him to like some moderquarterback it like wow, likeTerri, Bradshaw Tis, like how's, it do in the hall of fame. Well, the rihimschanged around so much right. You know you can't eally. Do that apple's applesbut yeah, like any counting statistic, I think it's overrated. Well,especially how t games are changing out too, with how long pictures actuallypitch? Oh Yeah, you know Ond all that Ota itch Cana. If I have a pet pave.That's my the hundred Hitchhich CCOUNT yeah, like we looked it up that NolanRyan actually throu, two hundred an thirty five pitches n one game like and they can't even get to likeyeah bout them. So well we e lk, you like, like laying Kursa who's likemowing people down and like hehhe's, just killing them an take him out inthe six to put on a pitchere who isn't as goon as plaing co saw. Then ye like it doesn't always make sense. I don'tget it an. I think you have to throw longer to build your arm strength up,yeah right if you only throw no more than five innigs you're, never going tobe able to throw yeah complete game when you need yeah the playoffs andlike u right, yeah right exactly all right. So thank you so much for coming O Pleasurwith Ush. We really appreciate it was very informative. Our fans are going tolove it. One last thing we want to know if you give us a little shout out fromyou and fan doll, yea about how you guys love watching huld up with gogodyeah. So thanks Bo for Havinguss, I appreciate it. You know hig up withGustin Dave. You know you know. FANAL is a huge support of what you guys doand you know I'm booking out for good things, and and hopefully we can workto get in the future s much guys. Thank you.

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