Huddle Up with Gus
Huddle Up with Gus

Episode · 2 years ago

Lisa Riggins

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Lisa Marie Riggins — President, founding board member of FAIR (Fairness for Athletes in Retirement) and USO-Metro Senior Vice President and member of its executive team.  A graduate of Fordham University School of Law, Riggins was previously Assistant Prosecutor for Montgomery County Government and was Criminal Defense Attorney for Phillips Beckwith Hall & Chase. Married to NFL Hall of Famer John Riggins. Lisa tells us about her time growing as a military child and moving over 17 times until she graduated High School.  She played soccer as a child and explained how sports were a way for military children to be normal. She graduated from American University as a history major. Lived in New York city where  she was a model and actress. Went back to law school and became an attorney and prosecutor.  Stress drove her to the edge and then she found yoga. Now in a private practice and working for the USO Metro Lisa keeps busy by looking out for the Pre 1993 NFL Alumni.  FAIR, or Fairness for Athletes in Retirement, is a 501[c](3) nonprofit organized to represent the voices of NFL players who played before 1993 to help them obtain pension parity in the upcoming negotiation for the 2021 collective bargaining agreement (CBA). FAIR is committed to working with the NFLPA and the NFL to find a solution that allows for these great players and their loved ones to live with dignity. You can donate here: https://pensionparity.com     See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Welcome to our PODCAST, huddle up with Gus, where we talked to guests about how sports helped shape their life. I'm your host, former NFL quarterback gusts fraud, and I'm joined by my longtime friend and coast Dave Hagar. We are a RADIOCOM original podcast and you can find us on the new RADIOCOM APP or anywhere you listen to your favorite podcast. Now let's get in the huddle. Hello everyone, to another episode of huddle up with Gusts. Today the show is sponsored by the Western Bonaventure Hotel and Los Angeles. If you have a chance to visit and stay, definitely go to the Western bonadventure hotel. It's a great place to stay. Today my guest is Alisa Riggins. She Executive Vice President of the USO down by Arlington National Cemetery and her husband is running back John Riggins, and she is here to talk with us today a little bit about her past, but also mostly about what she is doing now to help all of the pre one thousand nine hundred and ninety three NFL veterans, the people that have come before me who have paved the way so that I got to do what I loved, and so today we have Lisa riggins on the show. Lisa, thank you for joining us and getting in the huddle with guss. Well, thank you, guys. Thanks for taking an interest in not and pre ninety dreers. Yeah, so, Lisa, tell us a little bit about when you were young. You said you were you were an army Bratt, as a lot of people say what we're what were some of the memories you have of sports that in your life because, as I've interviewed a lot of people that have been in the military that I've played sports have gone on to do other things and sports was always a big part of kids in the military. Yeah, and it's funny when you said with the theme of your show was about. I was thinking about it last night and sports and being an Army Brat and I think I moved seventeen times and interestingly enough, sports for military kids was the one way to make any friends or to feel any semblance of community or belonging, because every year you were the new kid. So sports was that one doorway where you could maybe just be like everybody else immediately and depending on how you did, how you performed, you could have friends immediately or at least you'd be with a group. So my brother and I are eleven months apart and so obviously he he moved with me and he was very active in sports. I was active in sports as a girl. I hate to say that. Soccer was what we did for girls. And then I got really good at gymnastics. So I started to compete for gymnastics. And what was difficult was, though, we didn't have continuity. We didn't have the same coach, we didn't have the same team every year, similar to your career. So you know, you could have somebody that takes a big interest in you one year and you could be with a team or, in my in my case, a gymnastics team that did really well, and then you're gone the next year and and if the program isn't a strong where you're going or if it doesn't exist where you're going, you have to find another sport. My broad there as a great example, and he played. I mean he became really good at tennis, he became really good at golf. He came when there was no tennis or golf in Washington State. At Fort Louis. He learned how to Ski. So he took every environment and found his niche because that was the only way to avoid the loneliness of being the new kid. So I guess I'm just expounding on your your talk about military brats being active, and I think that was our only way to connect. Yeah, that's so powerful because when you think of a kid that makes a transition from a high school to high school, you know, you see all these movies and these stories about that. You don't see a lot about kids in the military. There's not a lot of movies, stories, things that you could read about how it affected you as a child and all those transitions that you had to make. Good rely on your parents, but then you had to rely on those coaches. Those coaches probably were a big part of your life well, and you know, I'm going to date myself because in the s and the S, which is when I was a military Brat, you're you know, I think there's a new generation of Dad's now who are much more hands on and involved with kids and even in the military. I come from a generation where it was supposed Vietnam, it was still a very tough crowd and and you didn't get a lot of time with your father. You know, he was always out in the field or he was commanding, in my case, commanding troops. I mean the troops were the priority and and the children fell in line. So you weren't that out there on the sidelines and you weren't getting Dad out there coaching. Dad was, you know, doing something for the country. That's the way we were raised and in my case we had four kids and my mom was always just trying to set up home every year, you know. So you didn't kind of I'm so glad to see in one sense, I know there's it's it can become a problem, but I'm so glad to see parents involved with their children's, you know, sports career. But I've remember in my era and in my insular group, which was military, we were on our own there too. You know, you had a bond with that...

...coach, if you could. Or and as you're talking, I'm thinking about my brother, I have the world's greatest respect for he went on to West Point, became an army ranger, special forces, had a career in the military thirty years. Went to, you know, Afghanistan, Iraq. He was good at everything in the military physically, I mean he hit every every mark. He went into the most you know, the most sophisticated fighting squads and survived, and I do believe that could be traced back to all the resiliency he had as an Army Brat and and and and becoming involved in a sports aspect and and and challenging himself every year with no support. Well, that's you know, one of the things I've always told my kids is that if you can play sports in high school, it automatically gives you group of friends. And then if you can go to college and play sports as well. A lot of kids go to college in or lost because they've had these friends for four years and they think high schools to be all end all and then they go to college and they're lost. And then if you have a sport that you can play in college, you instantly have a group of friends, right, and I'm sure that's kind of how you felt like, even though that you didn't know those people, right, but if you went and played soccer, you all kind of work to the same goal. You had one coach and and you kind of eventually, you know, kind of fell right in with all them. Right, is that how you felt like when you had to be seventeen times? Yeah, you didn't have a luxury of thinking, Oh, you know, I'll be with these guys next year. It's okay, I can mail it in. It was the I think the stakes were much higher. Not only did you want to get the support of the coach by performing, you definitely wanted to feel like your teammates. And it depends how you're wired as a kid, but I think sports, again, I repeat, gave you that doorway. If you weren't a good talker, maybe you didn't want to socialize. You know, maybe that wasn't your skill set. For me it was okay, but not everybody else. You could at least physically put yourself in play and and overcome those boundaries, just just on that level and become and get some friends. And so that was a survival mechanism for sure. Right. So, when you would go from base to base, city to city, all over the I'm sure you were all over the world with your father. Did they have championships? Like? What did you like? What did the kids were they just plan to play and like just have today of seasons that you play for like a a base championship, a city championship, just like you know, most sports would do nowadays. I'm I was always curious about that. That's a great question. I had never really thought about it and unfortunately, no, when I say that I mean there was just no continuity. So if you got into a program, even if it was on the private civilian sector, you know, if you were going to school and you are not going in with a majority of base kids, you could have been a part of it for one year and they may have gone on. or You, if you were really lucky, you could have been a part of it the year they were really doing well. But then you would have had to be good enough, to be right or what you know to be to be taken in on the team and in a championship group. So we really didn't get that through and and and that that was I don't know how you would say how you experience it with with all the teams that you went through, also on a professional level. You didn't get that thrill of say what my husband had, you know, for ten years with the same group and there's the bonds and building into that championship and staying in that champion you know, I'm kind of going off off the rails here, but no, you know, we didn't have that we didn't. We were base kids. We were we were vagabonds. I mean, and I say that I say that with with compassion, but it was it was real. There's a great you said there are very many stories about military kids in there aren't, but there was a great movie called the the Great Santini with Robert Duval started it as a father. That is the military experience, what his kids went through. You are just base two, base fall in line. Figure it out. Fall in line, figure it out. Same for so what was school like then when you would go? You had all these sports. So this is a school day very similar to what it is for a typical high school student. Know well, you mean from the standpoint. Well, think about it, especially in junior high and high school. Those are difficult years for anybody just because, you know, life changes and things become much more dramatic and you don't know why. So think about trying to have an identity and trying to fit in. Every single year you are in line at the public school signing up as the new kid every single year. Maybe the clothes are different, maybe the music's different, maybe the clicks are different. You have no clue and you don't know what the dynamics are in the sports teams. You really are an outsider and I think...

...military kids, and I can't speak for all of them, I hope it's maybe changed or transformed now a little bit, as everything has, but I think military kids carry that with them, I really do. Yeah, and kind of being on the fringe. Yeah, you're on the fringe, but you also know how to step in when you have to. I think. Yeah, I think that you know when you when you are that kid that's moved around a lot, like my kids have. I mean we lived in seven different cities, really eight different cities through my time of playing in the NFL. My kids were all growing up through that. They weren't in the military, but they had to go to those schools. They had to fit in and then all of a sudden they'd find two or three friends right, right, and and then he'd be like Dad, we have to leave, I just got friends. Really, are you right? ME, right, we're great. I'm to leave. My senior year in high school. I mean it was just what you know, Washington State to Pennsylvania, Carlisles, a matter of fact. Oh, yeah, yeah, because we're still training their back then. Yeah, I wonder where you met John? Well, hopefully I didn't meet him when I was a high school senior. Yeah, I hope not. I have been. It was my first training camp ever in Carlisle when I played for the Redskins, and so I've been right. I've been. No couple of those bars with the hogs up there. So didn't. Your red man was was big and there were a couple. Of course John Always found the ones off grid. He would have to because he even many people bothering them. But when you went with the hogs, they didn't let anybody bother you just walked in, had a few beers in your left. Who was wrong? You that you got in on the tail end of some of the great great redskin years and teams. I sure did, and I you know I fell you. I feel like I kind of an old person at heart, like I kind of went through this transition of we do talk about the pre hundred, ninety three, those guys and how football's chain showed dramatically from then right, and I kind of went through a lot of those changes to where CBA's and new agreements in the way the game is played and and just social media and and how it's put out there and those pre ninety three guys like when I came in, you know, you knew they were great, you knew they were stars and they were just the hogs, they were the skins, you know, and it was just like I felt like I should have been back in that era. That's where really where I felt like really at home with right, right it was. It was definitely old school. Yeah, like all the guys now, they all tweet and do facebook and social media and I'm like, I don't really want to do all that stuff, but I have to because I have a podcast in different things. But it's right, it's kind of I felt like I really was right in the middle of everything. Yeah, you were a lot of change. You were. You watched it. So you go through your high school career and you never really had a chance to set your feet in the ground. And then you get done with high school. Where did you end up? Move It on to college here in Washington DC? I came. I came to Washington DC from carlile. I went to American University. I thought I wanted to be a journalist. My father, who was, you know, career military, he had gone to American University and we kind of did every we kind of did whatever. My father, Ye, kind you know, I gotten his master's degree year after Vietnam and he felt this is where I needed to go and he felt that every every person needed to do too years of service to country. So I got an ROTC scholarship at Georgetown and I did two years of our OTC while I was going to American University. So we did marching and I did pet and that was another level and experience of physical yeah, that's a whole nother range of physical yeah, activity thing. Yeah, private Benjamin, here we go. Yeah, yeah, so you graduate from American University. What was your degree in history and literature? History and literature. MMM, I I went into the the journalistic track and on that in and I just felt it was too confined and it was to wrote. You couldn't really have a bunch of a personality, I felt, being a news journalist. So I kind of segued out of there and I've always loved, loved history and literature. So not make you a lot of money, yeah, but well read. Yeah, unbeknownst to you that you know, being a being a writer, now you can go on all these different platforms. You know, you don't have to just you're not just writing for a single paper in the writing a little column. Yeah, now it goes out all over the world whatever you say in Second Oh, yeah, yeah, and I actually don't know that I'd want to. I actually don't know that I'd want to do it now with this level of exposure. The exposure in the world we live in now actually intimidates me. Yeah, I don't, I don't facebook. It just intimidates me. It is very intimidating. But I think, which you know, you realize that, man,...

I can say whatever I want to say, and you know you're going to have people to come back at you and say stuff to you no matter what you do. So you realize. I'm just going to put it out there. One of the great stories about all this is I interviewed Peter King from sports illustrated and M Mqb, and you would know who Peter is, and he talked about the greatest story he ever got was when Brett Farve was going to go into Rehab. You know, he told called Peter and told him the first time. Said Hey, I just entered myself into Rehab and and he kind of laid it all out there why he was going through all this. Well, that's print back in the day, and he was going to put it in sports illustrate, but the next epic, the next you know, magazine didn't come out for a week. So he said, I had this amazing story. It was going to be the biggest story in the United States at that time because Brett was one of the biggest players, and he had to sit on it and not tell anyone for a week. Wow, you know, whereas today he could just put it out there and it just be right away, right away, ass of a button. And I think about that too. You know, when you're talking about how you you think you were men more for the generation that are the decade, that of players that went before you, just by the way you're wired. And I think about social media now and personalities and and sound bites, and I you know, I got to I was lucky enough to get to be exposed to those redskin players of the S and and in my husband particular, I think out of social media was out around now, and his sound bites and and and you know, it actually was a lot more innocent back then that it is now. The things that were so shocking back then you know, they just had a lot of fun. But if people were taking pictures on their cell phones of you know, of that, of that group carousing around and having a great time, and then they capital, I don't know, I don't know where we'd be. I think you'd have to put John in a garage, in a box, right. What would you what would you do with them? They would like every coach would be like. I don't know. It's just insane to think about when he was, you know, at all. I've heard a lot of the stories, believe me, I've heard a lot of this whole nother dimension. You know, maybe there's a lot of great personalities out there now that we'll never know our see because they're eating. Well, I mean it's everything too dangerous. It's too dangerous. And then you know, well, I always tell the story. We're like when I was a kid. I'm sure you've seen this too, is is back in the day before cameras on cars and everything like that. If if you were under age, I lived up and I lived in the country in Pennsylvania, and if bunch of us were out and having a good time and the cops pulled up and said, what are you doing and we've had some beers or whatever they would they knew our dads, they knew our families and they just took us home and they they made sure that we left our car. And but now you get arrested, you know, you get something on your you know, and also for media. It's all over social media. This kid did that, and then it kind of rude stays with you for the rest of your life. Yeah, it's so it's a it's a way different field now. That's why I went. When you're telling kids who are getting recruited, you know, be careful. It's on your social media. We tell them all the time. Don't, don't go to a party and if you don't want to be seeing drinking, because somebody's going to take a picture of you at a party standing beside somebody drinking. You may not be drinking, but all of a sudden you're looped in with them exactly. And then, and I think it curtails the kind of I don't know if the kind of freedom of expression and fun that was a lot more prevalent back then. Right. So now today's players, when you look, I'm and not to take it back to players, but you know, we don't really know them. They have, you know, protectors people. They you know they function, you know they're very at least from my perspective. You don't really know them on a personality level. And you know, because I'm sure they're protecting themselves. Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely, you have not. Yeah, you have to. So you graduate in history. And what was the next thing? You Left College. You said, I'm not any ROTC anymore. What was your next vision? What you want to do next? Was your next transition? Well, the most important part of that whole trajectory was actually meeting John and my senior year. So, so, how long have you guys been together? Well, that would have been eighty seven. So long time, long time, so long. You've been through a lot of those wild rides yourself. Wow, I have, but you know what, I was well conditioned for it, coming out of a military home with a ranger father. I was hit. Nothing really surprised me, I think. I don't know what else I would have done if it hadn't been somebody like John. I think I was predisposed. So when Your Dad met John, you said Hey, Dad, I'm bringing this guy home. I want you to meet him. What was that first meeting, like between John and your dad? Well, well, the irony is, you know, my father was a career ranger or in and he, and John, was always very publicly supportive of the military and they had the rigos rangers. I don't know if you remember that, but that you know he was. He was at I think ahead of his time. He had a Founda or. He was always supporting the Vietnam vets, you know, during his career. And so...

I happened to meet John Through my father and it was because my father was a ranger. So he was actually he was actually giving my father respect and and and meeting him and I happened to be with my father at that time. So I actually it is because of my father I met John Nice. So you John have been together for a long time. You've been obviously he is wellknown. You both are wellknown and in the DC area. What did you go on to do like for yourself? You know, my wife, she stay at home. She was a nurse at Georgetown well, and then she went on to Fairfax Hospital and then we started having babies and she she was a stay at home mom for a long time, but she kept a nursing license up. Yeah, and then when our kids were grown off to college, she went back gut our masters and social work. So what was that journey like for you, going through those times when John was with the Redskins? Well, he had just retired. He retired, you know, eighty six. So I obviously you couldn't go you couldn't be in Washington DC and not be aware of the redskins and the hogs and John Riggins. I knew a little bit about his personality and and and it got to see on experience all that, but when I actually really got to know him he was done playing. And I you know, it's funny I think about the military part now, having grown up in the military. I also never really like to stay in one place. So I went up to New York City after I graduated and it was just a fluke. When I was here in DC, I got cast in gardens of stone, which was a film that Francis Word Coppola was filming here at Arlington Cemetery where. I know, how weird is that? That is weird full circle. Well, yeah, maybe I didn't go anywhere or I'm just yea. So from that I kind of got to know the producer and you know, I grew up in a very, very strict household. So I would I look back on it now and say maybe I went off the rail. So I did something you're not I didn't have a smooth line. I went to New York and went to American Academy Dramatic Arts, Oh, wonderful. Yeah, and and my dad's family was all from the village in Manhattan, so I had I had, you know, family back there. So I was in New York City for twenty five years. I became an actress, a little soap opera stuff of you know, did a little dancing for, you know, pre Broadway. So I had that part of my my thing done. Right. You got to do it while you're in your twenty s, right. Lived in California for a year, though. I did all that fun stuff and and was still dating John, but not staying in DC and being the girlfriend. Right, doing that, being you just, yeah, because I was an army bread right. Oh, I just I was done here. You know, there was nothing for me here. So I lived in Manhattan and then eventually John moved up there and we got married and Mayor Giuliani married us and the mayor's office. And then we had a child right away and, like your wife, I mean I felt so fortunate that I had the choice to be able to stay with my daughter, and so I took care of her. But as soon as she was around four or five, I panicked and I thought, you know, if something happens to John, all I know how to do is, you know, audition, and that's not support my daughter. There was just this feeling of complete responsibility. I could never give her the life that John was giving us right so I went to law school? Why? Yeah, I pulled my bootstraps up and I thought I need to be able to take care of her and myself if something went happened to John. So I went to Fordham law school. And Yeah, and and I got to say John was a was a hero, he was a trooper. He Cook Care of her, because that's a tough thing to do, and studding a lot. And and I had been out of school for fifteen years, so it wasn't like I was in practice. And so then when I was done with law school, I also realized early like being a mom. So I had one. That's great, maybe, and then I got to stay home with her for three or four years and then we moved down here to Washington DC. I've done New York. We've done New York. We've done it. I had done it for twenty five years. John and I were married and lived there together for fourteen years and hell's kitchen. He was doing broadcasting and he was doing in acting and you know, we had a we had good life. We had a lot of fun. Yeah, we had a house in Mont talk and he was UN serious and he was it. was working really hard. And so then we moved down here. I started practicing law. took two bar exams and that was during the recession, so everybody was scared about work. Yeah, so I got bar three states, so I could work anywhere. What type of law direct well, ironically, I...

...went into criminal defense originally, initially because it had a real good friend who had a law firm here. I interned in New York of the prosecutor's office in the southern district, in the Manhattandier's office. I wanted to be active, I wanted to be moving and shaken. I didn't want to be buried in a room, you know, looking at reefs. I wanted to be out on the port room for. Yeah, I'd had that that acting background and I do get pretty passionate, which is probably something that will segue into before your show is over. I get pretty passionate if I believe in a situation and I and I need to convince that there's a wrong that's been done. But when I came down here and passed the bar exams and started working, I had a real good friend out a firm and it was something I didn't have to worry about trying to get. So it was a criminal defense firm. So I did that and I didn't feel as comfortable in the criminal defense side because you couldn't pick and choose your cases. You had to defend no matter what the situation right. So I switched under the prosecutor side and I became a prosecutor and I have to say I enjoyed that the most of everything I've done in my legal career. And people say, well, and I didn't do it for super long because the left, the hours were really bad and there wasn't a lot of money and I had two young daughters. But it was the most rewarding because I really enjoyed being able to make decisions where people really shouldn't get caught up in the system. Yeah, for all things, you know, I was older, so I didn't have flared nostrils. I kind of had a perspective. Yeah, and came in even kill. Yeah, yeah, I mere cases. That were you involved in when you got the DC? Well, and that was it was at I worked for the Montgomery County Prosecutor's office because we lived it, we live and still live in Maryland. Um, I can't quantify it because I was I was a district court. So that's where you're doing. You could do as many as three thousand to seventy cases in one knocket. Cheese. So it was you were the like somebody would go to like they would get arrested or whatever, and they'd have to you know, they asked them, do you want an attorney? You were the other side. You were saying you when they would come back and you would try the case, you were you were the one saying this is why mash so, I mean every every district is different, every state is different, but Montgomery County has a very, very, very big docket and the way they were running it when I was there, you could have, let's say, a big docket if you had a big docket, fifty to sixty cases in one day. Maybe ten or fifteen of those had just gotten arrested. This is their first appearance and they need to be advised of their rights by the judge. And yes, I was on the other side. I was the state, Madam State Up. Another group of those could be already represented, having already gone through that that first day on another day. Now they're back attorney and a defense attorneys. They're going to work out a deal with you or try the case right then and there. So yeah, it was it was a mishmash, but I'd never enjoyed or got any pleasure out of people on the other side being intimidated. It's a very scary process when you're a defendant. Yeah, for all kinds of reasons and and and I really tried to from from my own perspective, the even keeled and respectful at all times. And Yeah, it was a very it was a rewarding experience. It's too bad that it was so most of the people I was working with her in their s, because that's what you do, that grind right. Yeah, that is a great that. Yeah, and I had two little girls. So so, how many years. How long did you didn't long. I did it for two years, but you, I mean I felt like you. I would do probably felt like ten years. Yeah, and then I went into private practice. So you're into private what have stayed on? If I was twenty six, I would still I would have stayed on, but I wasn't seeing my daughters. Yeah, that's important, right. I mean, yes, that's people make a lot of decisions and why they change jobs, transition from one thing to another because of our kids. Yeah, and my wife and I have done it and we know we both said we were going to be there to try and support them as much as we can to give them a great head start on life. Yeah, because we know of a lot of people that didn't have that. Well, and I'm sure you said I think you. Are Your Kids Gone Now? Are They in college? Are they out of the health I have three. My daughter Abby, she's at Veterinarian School of pain. Wow. My Middle Guy, gunner, he's in his last year at William and Mary. He coaches football there, and then my youngest son gave is at Delaware. So see it paid off. Yeah, what's all? They're really proud of all of them. My son, gunner, was in a movie. Really Yeah, he was a lead actor. They made a movie, is very serious movie about a boy who committed suicide. He plays that...

...that boy in the movie and it's called Solo Orange. It was a it was a production from last year, but the person who produced it and wrote it was that was the that boy's best friend. And so gunn only took one acting class in college and then everybody in classic you got to go try out for this, and so he got it and now we're helping him get it into colleges as for help with suicide prevention and and understanding that there are people out there that want to help and be there for you, and so we're now. So we're starting that process now, which is very excited. We're going to Robert Morrish University next week here in Pennsylvania to to present it to all the film students. Gunner's got to talk about what it was like making a movie and all the parts that are entangled with it, and then we're also going to be talking to there's there's different groups up there called active minds and in different people on suicide prevention and and you know ways that you can talk about what's going on in your life, and so that's really what the movie is. It's made so that somebody hears that, somebody goes gets help, and if we can save a life, that's what we want to do. Wow, that's great, and it's becoming an who knew, and that's a whole other topic, but just since you're you and your son are already involved in it. Who knew that this was going to be somewhat of a real problem? It's not an epidemic, but I know that that suicide is up in a way that we've never known before in our in our history. Well, another it really is right in yea, even with the veterans. I look at them, you know, and yeah, you know, NFL veterans, military veterans, people struggle with this. You know, they come out, they don't know what to do, they don't know where to go, they don't know if anybody wants to help them. They're free to ask questions, and that's really what it is. It's about. There are people around you. Sometimes you just still see him in the right in front of your face. Yeah, and I don't want to pretend that I that I know anything about it on any level. Other than concern and and and working with the military and and, you know, trying to support NFL veterans in a different way. But I they're also finding out that in some of the centers that I deal with, that there are genetic components, and maybe you've maybe you've heard this or read about it, that sometime alter the brain waves. So we're somebody else makes a decision not to go through with that act, the communication that the communication in the brain waves are firing in the right way, whereas you know, it's like some people don't know how to stop eating. Amplify it. Let me ice cream. Yeah, yeah, they're just finding that there's components to this that you know that that I mean, God bless anybody who's doing the work to try and and and mitigate and support right. You know, there's there's people. It's kind of interesting if you look it's there's some NFL veterans that work with military veterans closely. Are Are Copple, for instance, with after the impact fund. Yeah, Eric Sun committed suicide and now eric goes all over talking to military. You know, I think navy, Bass Air Force bases about suicide prevention and and I actually went to Robert Morrise. He went and talked to the kids there. They do a wonderful program and try to help the kids, but just talked about how sometimes your brain just there's no way. They don't it doesn't know any way out right and it doesn't know that there's a way to escape, and so they think the brain just is telling you this is the only way. Did Right, I think at part of really part than I did. Yeah, right. So so you're in your private practice now. So what? How long far into your private practice did the pre one thousand nine hundred and ninety three issue started coming up for you and you probably been doing with them for a long time and understood them, but really where you wanted to get involved? Well, and that's a great another great question because, in going back to the sports component of this, when I when I spent like a really chunk of time between starting for bar exam's going to work, working in the prosecutor's office, there was just like a this five year stretch where all I did was crushing to my you know, it was stressful, right, and I had developed high blood pressure of the first time in my life. I was losing hair. I mean stress was real yeah, so I was missing the physical part of living. That heals you and I don't. So I moved. I got into Yoga and because I had a dance in gymnastic background, it was like an easy segue to me. But you know, you've becomeing to you become a mom, you're working, you know, you're not on the soccer team anymore. Right, not going to probably dance center anymore. Go to the gym. But that wasn't you know, you don't really have that, that community. That and for me Yoga was was...

...individual and it was an individual competent not competition, because you're not supposed to compete in Yoga, but that improvement, that and I really dove into that. And and because I knew something was going on that was not going to be good physically. What's the stress? You know, this isn't the life to live, to be this stressed. So I became I got five hundred hours of instruction and I trained really hard and I taught. I started teaching at night on the weekends, and I really don've into that. Yeah, and and maybe done. Have you done PLOTTI's as well? Yep, did it for three years with John as a matter of fact in New York City. That's when favorite. I'd rather do PLOTTI's in Yoga. But yeah, well, I did it for three years and and and he did it with me. It was just coming a thing. It was back in hold on, let me get at this. I don't know if something gotten the way here. It was just becoming a thing and and we were both really into it. So the yoga from me, Oh, the challenge is great. So, so so I have not gotten off that trajectory. I've gotten for the last seven years I've been really in it, physical with Dyeo, and it worked. You do the hot yoga. I didn't don't know. I don't do the hi Yo. I don't know. Like my have a I have a. So Brandon Noble is a friend of mine. He played for the Redskins in the cowboys and he played for twelve years in the NFL and he loves the hot yoga. He was a defensive lineman. He said sometimes I go in there and I don't even stretch, I just lay in the ground and sweat. I said that's probably because you drink too much. That's what I've done it and it is that does give you, it does put you on a high, but from the standpoint of it's just such an interesting combination of stretching and sweating. But I do our Shtana. So a Shtun is a real strength flexibility it's one of the original Yoga, Yoga disciplines that came out of it, but it's a very strength and flexibility oriented routine. So I do a Shtanga and they're there the I can you can sweat all you need to just do in that you don't need the heater. So in doing that, my personal experience is when you start, when you start getting into shape in the way that I felt yoga gets you into shape. There's a lot of clarity and your thinking process, your your mind clears out when you're doing this on a consistent basis and your disciplined about it and your regular and I credit a little bit of my dedication to or my interest or my involvement, my devotion to the to the pre ninety three years, to that process because as I was becoming more and more aware and clear and sensitive, I was really impacted by what was happening to friends of my husband's their families, because I had known them through this whole arc of being. You know, some of the most physically gifted people in our country. Right, it's it could be on a professional football team. That means if you're on a professional football team, that means you were one of the best athletes in high school, you were one of the best athletes in college and then you're one of the best athletes in the country. I mean, I forget the stats, but to make to make an NFL team is, I think, one and ten thousand out of college. So you're there and you're an elite athlete, right, and you you are everything. We all those little league all those team sports, all those care parents on the sidelines. That's the pinnacle. And you guys all got there. And now you know, I was seeing that and that as at arc of life was coming to the other side. Yeah, life, change is evolute. We understand that. But the level of I don't want to say suffering because that's a strong word, but the level of difficulty that these elite athletes were facing because of what they had done and and they had used their gifts and their skill set and entertained people, gave people a lot of joy, right, and a lot of joy, and by Carrie US escape and all of that here they were, not their wives, their kids themselves. The struggles were, to me unacceptable, unacceptable, and there was nobody answering this wrong. And I'm not that person. I mean I I'm not saying I'm you know, I just felt like I had to do something to help. And what really I had? So I had a good friend of mine in New York say, you know, the problem with you, Lisa Marie, is that you believe in right and wrong. That's going to wear you out. But this just seemed wrong. And so I at the time Gus, the the concussion lawsuit was all in...

...the news. This was like two thousand and fifteen to so it was really the conversation, right and it was being saddled. And you know, what was it? And there was it was the appeal. I don't think anybody still knows what it is. Well, what that one of the people on my board of former player. He was one of the attorneys during that whole thing and so he's been able to Fortu to explain it to me. And yes, it's it's anyway. No, it's so complicated. I think that's by design. So then we under it's what it is. But so in Washington DC and then the circles I was running and I would just start having conversations and because of John and his name, people would always say, you know, the concussion lawsuit would come up and it was always, you know, as John Okay, it's he okay and and and fortunately John is okay, and I would say he's okay, and then they would say, well, you know, thank God these guys at least have a good pension. And that's where I would say, wait a minute, yeah, you don't really know. We need to talk, you know. And the person after person after person what they were in shock when I would tell them what the facts were, you know, and and these aren't just everyday people, these would be, you know, pull up politicians, legislators, high level people here in Washington DC, high level attorneys. So when I'm talking to that many smart people and they have no idea about this pension issue and not one of them felt that it was understandable or acceptable, they were in shock. If I could put, if I could put a word on the Mug, on a coffee Mug, or get a nickel for every time somebody said to me we had no idea. Well, we had no idea. The owners did such a good job of hiding it for so long, from from the public right where the players would say something and it was just kind of like swept under the rug for years and years and years, and then collective bargaining came out and it got a little bit better. But collecting Barney was for the current players. Yeah, it wasn't for the past players exactly. And then. So some of that is trying to change and from reading a lot of the stuff that you sent Terry over, you know, I look at my dad. My Dad worked for PPG for forty two years and he had health insurance for his whole the rest of his life. Yeah, you know, I retired after fifteen years in the NFL, playing football for twenty five years straight. I had insurance for five years after I retired. Yeah, and most of us don't have problems until we're in our late S, F s s right, and then we're you know, if we don't have another job, if we made enough, you got to go get insurance. And it's not cheap though, you know, and you know, when people say, I don't think people really understand when they say, well, you know, you you know that was then and you know what you were getting into. I mean, I've heard it all and and it makes me sad because what I'm what fair is advocating for, is not going to impact the public or the tax pair and in any way. It's we're trying to reach out to the employer. You know, I like to say it's a to me it's a wrong, it's a disparity. That is wrong and it needs to be addressed and the facts need to be delivered to the stakeholders, because it's not just the owners, it's our union. To you know, there are two. There are two handmade. There's way more than one unity. It's like six. I don't even know why we have six unions in the NFL, but it's. Yeah, but the one that controls your pension Yas NFLPA, the NFLPA. They they they will, you know, they have a hand in it and they are the both, the two of them, are handmaidens. And I, you know, I think when I when I when I see what people write in comments, and I think there's almost I don't know how to describe. I want to say, why would you want this group of men to suffer? I mean why would it? Why would you take pleasure out of that, and not saying that they're taking pleasure, but why wouldn't you want their former employer and union who have done very well and you can connect the dots back to these original workers. You can definitely make that, you know, that connection to how and why everybody is doing as well as they are exactly. They built some bridges there. Why would you want them to not be a part of that support? What does it give you pleasure to say too bad, so sad, go and and, you know, sit in your trailer and let your teeth rot, even though you're a hall of Famer and you did nothing wrong. That's what I that's what it is also very frustrating from me, and it was a very tricky advocacy because I have so much respect for the players and their families and I would never want them to be put in anything that's embarrassing. I would never want...

...to use their situation to, you know, get more awareness. They're uncomfortable and they sit and a lot of them are. So how do you take your constituency with without putting them out in the front line, you know, and and letting people see what this is about? I let people see I mean I know a player in Washington State who played for twelve years. He's a janitor, you know, and do anything wrong. It's medical and he doesn't want to talk about that. People don't want to hear about, you know, all the problems that I have. You know, they're like, oh, yeah, you played fifteen years, you were backup, you didn't play like other guys. What doesn't matter. You know, all takes is one instant on the football field where two people that are running at top speed. It's like being in an automobile crash. You're a hundred percent right. That's what John Always says. You know, the business model is not natural for the human body. It's college. It's collision, even if you know the closest second one is is, is hockey, but even hockey, which I'm not going to say, is not a very it's a violent game, but you play on the outskirts, you know, you're playing on the edges. You're not aiming to collide. They just they lose your teeth a lot more than we do. Yeah, and and and I say, okay, nobody's asked for pity, nobody's asking for taxpayer money, nobody's asking for fans. What we're saying is there's a real collateral damage that that comes with this business model and if it is, if it has made the employer and again the future workers wealthy beyond comprehension. You know why? Isn't their support? And I'm not even saying what, because that was another tricky thing. I didn't want to come at this as a winer, as a complainer. That's not it's a factual issue. It's an equity issue, it's a pension issue and if you gave these workers, these former workers, a semi respectable pension that I think they earned, let them live their lives in quiet dignity. That's not going to solve their problems, but at least there's some dignity and how they approach their problems. So tell us about what fair stands for and really some of the people that are involved with it, you know, because it would be great to share that with our audience. Yeah, that well, it's fortunately it's a pretty easy acronym, fairness for athletes and retirement. Yeah, it's pretty easy, and that's all we're asking for is is to level the playing you feel, if you will, and the pension and as far as supporters. I mean I've been blessed with with with people like Franco Harris and Dick buccus and Dave will cox and Dave Casper and Dan Pastorini and then Jo Jacoby, Kenny Houston. I mean I'm just thinking of all the very ether randy white and and a number of players, and you know, these guys have come out with names that we can recognize to support the the no names, and that's really what this is about. The the Franco Harris has and the Dick buccuses. They have come together to support fair because they, like John and myself, know so many players, and I know you though this as Wellc us. Their names may never be recognizable, but they were the elite athletes, they were the support system. Nobody has a name without them right and the dignity. They deserve the dignity of a pension. And in you that that that in Franco Harris does too, and Dick Buccus does too. But they have come to support me to give visibility right. So what are some of the ways that fair is trying to put pressure on on, you know, the people that can stakeholders. Yeah, the steak they can can increase release the pension. What are some of the ways that you guys are are looking towards? You know, is it community activity? Is it social media? What are some of the ways you're really trying to put the pressure on, or is it just some of the big names that you guys have that are pre ninety three yors trying to go and talk to these people? Well, that is a loaded question because the NFL and the Union and the NFLPA are two of the most powerful entities of their kind in their world, in that sandbox, and my personality by nature is not to be confrontational and not to be provocative. I joke that I'm normal ray, but I'm really not. I really just would like reason and facts to to...

...reach people, since fairness and in that sounds naive, but I'm willing to go ahead and risk of that format and that strategy and lose then then to be be provocative. So I've had I've been fortunate. Well, first of all, everything takes money. Right you can say what's your strategy and and that was where I feel fair was different this time around from the other efforts, maybe because we knew we had to capitalize this effocat. We had to raise money. You know, we couldn't just have a good script, of good story and keep going to the stakehold holders and say this is really what needs to be done. We needed money to not only pay professional actuaries to get the best facts and give the stakeholders a proposed solution right backed up by serious money crunching people, not just a group of former players and wives saying this is what we think would be fair and you know, we need we think you should double that or you know, this is really helped me up my mortgage. We wanted to give them the very best and most respectful proposal. We couldn't the actual aerial proposal itself. It was a hundred thousand dollars, you know. Yes, so that's a game changer. You can't just you you got to find that and then add the component of awareness, of social media that you're talking about, the messaging. That cost money. Yeah, you know, we have a PR firm and all of the all of the the narrative, if you will, cost money. And if I had five million dollars, would we BE ON TV? Would we be doing great campaigns and, you know, really trying to reach the fans to add pressure to get these two stakeholders to come to the table and and and not whitewash this, just do something about it. I don't have money. We raise a significant amount and it's very time consuming, so very time considered. So I didn't your question, but I will and I don't mean to interrupt you, but at the end of the day I've tried to be respectful of the owners, I've tried to be respectful of the Union. I've tried not to get in their way. I'm sure maybe they're not crazy about the facts that we have put out there, but that's all they are as facts, when not spinning them right, when not gaggerating them, we're not poking them, we're just saying it's handling you like a lawyer. These are the facts and they are kind of what shocking, and I think the most shocking thing that came out of our actual aerial exercise would it would take less than one percent of the owner's revenue and the salary cap on the union side, less than one percent each one of those. Take one percent and match it to really do a significant fix on this pension. How many pre ninety three players are there that are still alive. That number is kind of slippery. I want to say. I'm going to I'm going to give you an estimate on the on the on the larger end, I want to say for thousand five hundred. As are actuaries. One of the things that made this so expensive was the painstaking work of going back and figuring out because the other thing in this pre hundred ninety three group there's also bridge players. Leaning say a Jackie slider, he played ten years before ninety three and years after ninety three. Joe Jakobe, he played I think twelve years before ninety three, retired ninety four, more year after are. So is he not a pre ninety three Er? You know, you right. So we were including those guys who who were bridge players. You know, they had they had years on both sides. So I want to say somewhere between forty three hundred and forty five hundred. And they are this sin is the last CEB. I think we've lost seven hundred. Wow, they do. They do pass away at a rate of about between ninety and a hundred and forty a year. Wow. So it's a group that is shrinking. And yes, that's why I think it's even more compelling if you do this and if you, if you, if you would improve their pensions. It's like a mortgage. It's going to be paid down. No, your books forever. Right, right, and and they're the ones that need the most help. Yes, and a lot of them. The average age, I think, is sixty seven. So give them this dignity, this last you know. Well, you know. They're also the group that you know you played for the NFL and the NFL owners and once you were done, you were done. You know, they love to celebrate you and bring you back and try to make some more, you know, flare off of you, but they weren't giving you continue education,...

...they weren't trying to help you get jobs with companies and corporations that they knew. They just said thank you for playing. That was it. And you make a good point and I think that's I think that's hard on guys because this was a big part of their lives and there's a great deal of comrade or three and there was a great deal of loyalty to the NFL and nobody wants to feel like you're just done. I think that they've done a really good job and this is part of the reason why I can still stay so motivated to advocate for these guys because the current players, I think, are in a much better situation. Yes, you may not be in the Brotherhood and in the family once you're done, but you are so set up. I think in so many ways they have really, really done well. These guys have seven benefits. They do have continuing education, there are post transitions, there's investment education, there's there's there's post career, you know, counseling, psychology and the money in their pension and and their HRA, their health reimbursement account, and there are annuities and there for one case, they have surrounded them with support because the I in my opinion, they understand this is a need. You know. So you guys are the pre ninety three years. They are crazy. They they deserved some post career. Well, I think what one of the biggest errors in all of this is that that the union, the NFL, they solve the wrongs right and they they started to make adjustments in them through the CBA and different things correct but they never corrected the wrongs. They just left them go and said okay, now they put the eighty eight plan in that if you do have dementia, then we'll take care of well, that's too freaking late by then. Right, and that, and that was part of what I tried to do with fair was clear up the confusing messaging. And that is when, when, when he would always hear from whether it be the union or the League. But we do this for these guys and we have this for these guys. Eighty eight plan and right, exactly. Hey, but that's when the quality of life is done. We're talking about, you know, we're talking about where they're still okay and it's something they learned. It's, you know, they earned a pension. Right. Well, that's what I'm saying. Like they should have just when they even noticed that in that CBA and that that after ninety three, that see, thats CBA that we put together in the NFL. They should have said, okay, here's what it's going to be. We're going to take care of those guys that came before. Right, we're going to give them, we're going to we're going to take care of their health care, we're going to raise their pench a little bit. Then it's over. Like you took care of the air. You knew what the air was but now you've let it go for another thirty years. Right, like, righty, right. Well, I you know you're reading my mail and my journal. I don't think there is a an acceptable answer to that. Why? And I agree with you, and part of the thing that inspired me to put this amount of time and effort in this was, once again, it's kind of a legal situation. Is there precedent for this? Because legally, the Union and the owners have no obligation to form employees. Right, once they're gone, they're gone. But their counterpart, it's the NBA and Major League Baseball, they don't have the legal obligation either, but they don't see it that way right, understand the moral obligation they I think they feel good about the support, supporting the long line, if you will. So that's what gave me courage to commit the time and energy and and raise the money for this, because neither one of our stakeholders can say, well, this is just isn't done. NOPE, does this. Why should we do this for you? And that's where the civilians, I say that in the public and the fans, I think, are are confused because they say, well, companies don't have to reach back and raise pensions for their employees. That's doesn't happen. As a matter of fact, pensions are going by the way of the Dodo Bird. Lots of companies are winding it down, and that's all legitimate. But this is not apples to apples. You cannot say that professional sports and and the business model of what is requires, specifically in football, is the same as being a teacher or the same as working at GM. You just can't. And that's fine if if private companies are going, you know, if their pensions are going away, but in professional sports the pensions are just going up right. They're going up right and they're adding more. Well, you could also, if you were in another company, you could buy stock in that company. Ye, like imagine if the pre ninety three players could all head stock in the NFL, and I've used that analogy. Okay, they can say, well, too bad, they played back then when there weren't you know, salaries were thirtyzero dollars. It was no free agency, you know, tough lock. That's the way that that's the way the ball boat. Yes, but they were the original stockholders. And what involved in an organization that's growing like the NFL was back in the S...

...and s S. nobody could predict right how big you should have shares, because the company can't give you anything yet, but they can give you an investment in their future that you are putting blood, sweat and tears in. Right, right, exactly what should have had? Shares? Something, yeah, on them. Yeah, exactly. You're right. Nobody could predict AU successful was going to be. But guess what? Those pre ninety three guys were a founding part of the success. Yeah. Well, my dad bought shares from PPG in the s. He didn't know. Yeah, company could have folded. He had no idea. It was a gamble. Yeah, he was just a worker in in in for city, Pennsylvania, saying well, these could be worth a lot of money some days, so I'm going to get them right. So all the naysayers, I say, you know there is there's also pressid in the private sector. Like Your Dad, those early workers gets get shares right and they bet on the com and they know that there's sweat equlday may pay off. Yeah, you guys are still standing there in the cold. Exactly, exactly. Well, you've put all this time in with fair you have a US oh. Jacket on, tell us about what you're doing with the US oh. Wow, you just don't know if you're are busy enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's all that Yoga. It gave me too much energy. Yeah, my poor husband, I I don't get to see him as much as I would like to do. But Fair was actually kind of the segue into the US oh, because I was in private practice for personal injury and then I started a fair thing and that was very consuming to the point where, you know, I was losing income and because I we are not paid it fair. You know, nobody's getting paid it fair, except the people who are are contractors that are doing, you know, work, external work for us. But so John and I've always been involved with the with the US oh, especially John, and I knew the the founder and Muans. They founder, the president of the US o Metro, which is the largest US Ol in the world. It's here in DC right. Her name is Elaine Rodgers. She has been doing this since one thousand nine hundred and seventy four. She's an icon. She is Mother Teresa of the US Oh and we would come down from New York and always support her Galus and her you know, we would come down to support the troops and she and I remain close and she was very supportive of what I was doing the fair. There's a lot of crossover right, you know, in the in the two populations, you know, there's less. There's just so much synergy and crossover. And she spent her whole life supporting the military side. I come from the military. I spent the last three years and ten sensibly supporting the the professional flip football player side family. And you know, it's not. That almost sounds like a contradiction, because that's the other thing, Guss, that was that was so shocking for people that I would have conversations with about this, and I know you, I know you know what I'm talking about. The perception now is that anybody who ever played the game is well taken care of and wealthy, that you guys on golf course links, oh Ye, you are living the life that everybody else is today and and think that. Yeah, and you don't want to sit there and go no, I don't, actually I i. You know, I have twenty three hundred dollars a month in a pension and I don't have healthcare. You know, you don't really want to say that because this perception is people want to keep that perception right. They don't want to know that you guys are struggling. That's an uncomfortable thing and I'm going off script again here, but one of the things that I felt was important about f advocating for the pension and I was trying to make sure we were clear that we weren't talking about concussions. concussions certainly had enough impact on people's lives. We're talking about a money fix. I think people concussions in and what that's all about and CTE. That makes fans very uncomfortable because if you love the sport and you're the watching the sport, there's I think there's a well, my I will, I'll kind of in my way of thinking of this. concussions keeps people from playing. Money does not keep people from playing the sport. Right, right, if if we say that all of our pre ninety three people had concussions and Cte, there's a lot of people who have children. Now that's saying. Well, they're like this, my kids not playing the game. But if we say all we want to do is give pre ninety three an increase in their pension, right. That matches what it should be for today's inflation and everything else. Right. That's not going to keep a parent from going and having their kid play for exactly you're articulating it exactly. I'm not addressing whether or not you should play the game or whether or not fans should support it or watch it. I'm it's a money fix. It's a pension to let these guys, you know, purchase health insurance, do whatever does they need to do. So you're a hundred right. We're...

...not making a comment at all on on the morality or not the game. We're just talking about a pension for an American worker in this field. But so back to my other point, the US. Oh So, I stayed in touch with the lane on what I was doing with fair and we got some good press and support here in Washington DC for what we were doing. And this is where, you know, the NFLPA is and this is where the lawmakers are. And so she was looking to hire somebody, you know, to kind of get trained up, you know, because she can't do this for another forty years. Right. So it was a perfect storm because I really, really got a lot of satisfaction out of working for the pre ninety three guys. I really except for the fact that there was no, no in compensation. I just got so much satisfaction out of supporting this group because I believed in the issue so strongly and it was much more inspiring than what then practicing law for me personally. And and so the military population. That's my father, that's my brother grandfather, that's my nephew. You know, it was it was a great segue. So I was very, very fortunate that the timing came up. So now I am the senior vice president and not to bore you, but we're the largest one in the world and people don't know what we do to a lot of people don't know. We have to family warrior centers where we take care of wounded, ill and injured and their families. We are in the all the airports in this area where we take care of all the soldiers coming in, and now we do tons of programs for them. I mean it's constant support or Amen and women. Yes, so it's it's amazing that you've just fallen into both categories right, the NFL veterans and their needs, the military veterans in their needs, and now you're trying to take care of all of them. You're just the mom to all of them. I'm just a small little thing. And who's that? WHO's trying to you know, just trying to do the right thing each day by a group I believe in. Well, yeah, yeah, no, and I appreciate it. And one of the last things we always do in the show is we call it the no huddle. It's like a two minute drill. And I just asked you some fun questions. So you know, for instance, what's your biggest pet peeve? Oh God, Oh God, dishonesty. I love it. Okay, what's your favorite sports movie? Victus, and yeah, that's a good one. That's a really good one, the whole social commentary that goes along with it. Yeah, what's your favorite John Reagan's story that you really don't know if it's true or not true? Well, you know, that's got to go through a whole filter. You know, the best thing I can say about John is the more stories I hear about him from people who played with him, and a lot of them are true. It is unbelievable that he survived and lived and did what he did. I don't think he's slept. He had a really good time in life and for me personally, I think he's got one of the best senses of humor. That's that was a big attraction for me. His stories, I mean, God, I don't know, I don't know. You know, we could go on and on. When and when, when football life did a piece on him, they had to they had to cut forty five minutes to get down to forty five right stories. You know, when he took his high school, I mean his college roommate who was about to graduate take his finals the next day. John Convinced him to go on a road trip with them. In the feature. Seven days later the guy didn't graduate. I mean the whole story is like it's it's hangover part two, you know. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure somebody probably read his bio and said we got to make this into a movie. Now there's three of them, another John Riggins, by the way, on the football team. I would I'd like to see a personality like that, but I'm biased. Yeah, I would love to see it as well, but you know, I think you're right. With social media today, I don't know how long they would last in that. They're hiding. Yeah, you know, what would have given them some great sound bites though in the day. Yeah, you really you'd have to keep it all in kind of you do, you know? And I think that would have been very hard for John to do because that wasn't who he was. Nope, he was a man of the people. She sure was, he sure was, so, teammates. So, if you were commissioner for the day, what rule change would you make in the NFL? M God, these are good questions, cous God. What rule change would I make? You mean like on the field playing? Actually, you're the commissioner, you could do what you want. I wouldn't...

...be the final arbiter of discipline. That would be tough, right. I would. Yeah, I would not do that. I wouldn't. I would take that rule away. Who would you put that up to? Then? I would put it up to a a neutral, a neutral, and that's hard to find. That's hard to find a neutral mediator, arbitrator. Yeah, I agree, because I know that. I think some of the former players are some of the, you know, kind of people who decide whether you did find or not. And I all those rules and I don't agree with that either. No, yeah, I think you got to take it out of you gotta take it's nepotism. You got to take it out of there and put it into a complete, neutral, neutral body. Right, yeah, to I don't want to be the final arbiter, you know. I mean that. That's just not a it's not a good place to be, right, too much power and too much power is not good. Right. So, I know John was retired, I think you said when you guys met M so this would have been after. But what was your favorite redskin game ever that you attended? Wow, that's another one. That's another good one. Gosh, I think it's funny because I was dating John when you were a quarterback for the redskin. So that's why I remember you. You know, that's for a lot of course. Then that kind of gave me a little bit of a biased to come on your podcast because I felt a little bit of loyalty. That's right, there's some loyalty there. Oh God, you know what, guess I can't. I can't answer that because I don't remember any of the Games. Eighty, seventy. I mean they went to the Super Bowl, but I don't remember any of them that were that stood out as oh my yeah, I guess I'm biased. I I'm old school. I loved watching those hogs. I love watching Joe Theisman and John Riggins, and so I was, you know, it was the older games right now and all that. Well, I grew up in Pittsburgh, so all those older games mean so much. I got to you know, I've interviewed Rocky Blyer and some of the owner wire right and coach a Dicka and, like you know, these are guys I grew up watching and now I get to interview and it's like been a great experience for me. I'd love to have I'd love to have John Come on. We could have a lot of fun and there his story. So tell him I'm going to call him some time and and bug him to come on the show. Well, let me ask you this. When you came in, I've John would have been gone for about four or five and now he would have been seven years out. So where they still telling stories in the locker room or had it died down? Oh No, they were still. I mean I was still with some of the hogs right. Oh, yes, yes, you were, Joji, Kobe, Rusk Graham, yeah, all those guys that you know would have kind of mark may a lot of them that knew John still kind of played with them and I've heard some good stories about, you know, Saturday night meetings with coach Gibbs and things like that. So, yeah, I know those story. Yeah. So, you know, Mr Cook was still the owner when I came in and you know, I wasn't there, you know, for when the ownership changed over. I was already gone by then, very five years. So, but yeah, a lot of great, you know, Legend rigous stories. Yeah, there were some great stories in that Locker Room. There were, you know, and that's a great things. Most of them stayed in the locker room. Yes, yes, it's a it is a fraternity. It definitely is. Well, Li say it was a it was a pleasure having you on. Huddle up with Guss and, you know, if there's anything else you want to say or people can go maybe see fair get on a website, just let us know, you know, put it out there right now and let us know where they can find you. Well, yeah, it's a it's pension PARODYCOM and I you know, the CBA. They're negotiating it right now, Guss. You know, who knows when this is going to come to fruition. I hope sooner than later. I hope so. I think the timing is perfect as we celebrate the hundred year. You know, take those celluloid those celluloid images and and do the right thing. Right let's let's do the right thing for all those guys before one thousand nine hundred and ninety three. So, Lisa, thank you. Thank you for fighting for for all of you know, the people that play the game before me and the people that I love to watch growing up. We want to thank you for listening to huddle up with gusts, a RADIOCOM original. You can find our show on RADIOCOM, the new RADIOCOM APP or anywhere you listen to your favorite podcast. Please leave us a review or comment if you enjoyed the show. We are on facebook, twitter, instagram and Youtube at huddle up with Gus. You can also visit us on our website, huddle up with gusscom.

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