Sounder SIGN UP FOR FREE
Huddle Up with Gus
Huddle Up with Gus

Episode · 6 months ago

Keith Law

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Joining me in the Huddle this week is Senior Baseball Writer at The Athletic, author of THE INSIDE GAME: Bad Calls, Strange Moves, and What Baseball Behavior Teaches Us About Ourselves, Keith LawWe discuss his childhood and how and why he fell in love with baseball. Keith is a numbers guy, and he thought his life would be in the world of business, but after realizing his passion for data and analytics was really in baseball, he took a job with the Toronto Blue Jays. He then worked at ESPN and eventually became the Senior Baseball Writer at The Athletic.

 THE INSIDE GAME shows how the decisions behind baseball—good and bad, big and small— present a new way to appreciate the game’s successes as well as its failures. You can check out Keith and his new book on his Blog Page, http://meadowparty.com/blog/.

Hey everyone, Welcome to anotherepisode of huddle up with Gus, I'm your host, former NFL quarterback GusFrerotte and welcome to the new 16 31 digital new studio. You know, somepeople say no news is good news. Well I say to those people you've never read.16 31 digital news dot com. Go to 16 31 digital news dot com to get your latestnews, sports, music and entertainment and maybe even listen to your favoritepodcast. Follow up with gusts. Check it out today at www. 16 31 digital newsdot com. Welcome to what surely will be a doozyof a matchup brian here. Sports fans, whether your game is on the gridiron atthe diamond or on the links, we can only say, yeah, welcome to this week's huddle upwith gusts. 15 year NFL quarterback Gus parents' passion for sports has takenhim on the field and behind the bench is playing for seven NFL franchiseswith 114 TVs under his belt. Gus knows who the players are and how the gamesare. One. Uh, it's not every day you get to hang out with an NFL quarterbackup. Okay, sports fans from the decked out and plush 16 31 digital studios,it's kick off time, so snap your chin straps on and get ready to huddle upwith us two left. Hey everyone, welcome to anotherepisode of huddle up with Gus, I'm your host just for about 15 year NFLquarterback. I want to thank you for joining me in the 16 31 digital newsstudio. I want to thank Sounder F. M. For having us on their platform and I'mreally excited about all the new technologies they're creating. Alsowant to thank our new sponsor, Manscaped. You can go to Manscaped dotcom and you can put in the code Gus Frerotte, F R E R O T T E. And you get20% off and free shipping. So go to Manscaped, take care of your body andand uh check out their products. So today's Guest I'm really excited about.You know, I've had some authors on before. He's written a new book calledThe Inside Game Bad Call, Strange moves and what baseball behavior teaches usabout ourselves. So today's guest keith law, he's a senior writer for theathletic keith. Thank you for joining me and how are you doing today? Thanksfor having me. I'm good. I am. I have scheduled my vaccine appointment fornext week so I'm feeling substantially better about the state of the world.Yes, I had mine already, both of them. So uh, it was lucky enough I just goton my insurance and and said, hey, there any times open and I actually hadto drive an hour north to go get them. So, which was cool with me. I would dothat in a heartbeat. Yeah. So I feel much better. So, uh, yeah, so I'mexcited that you're going to do that probably with your job and all thetraveling you have to do for baseball. I mean a lot of it you probably canwatch virtually, but it's nothing like being there. I won't fly until I'vegotten the first shot and then got in two weeks past that. So I've beenlimited this spring. I've been out in the University of Virginia. I went downto University of Maryland and they go back to you via a next week to seeLouisville. But I'm kind of limited to guys I can reach by driving, which, youknow, for the draft is a bit of a, an obstacle right. There's draft prospectsfrom texas and florida and California is bad this year, but there's still atleast one guy out there. I'd love to see it in a normal year, I would havealready seen him, but this is just not a normal year. Well we'll get into thedraft because maybe you can explain what the pirates do. I've been a piratefan my whole life and uh, it's been harder recently than easier, so, butlet's get, let's get about you and uh, you know, growing up in Long Island,tell me about the first time, you can remember where you kind of fell in lovewith sports, was it something that you played? Was it a family member? Was itan idol? What was that for you? So yeah, I'm Long island, it's, it's yankee andmet fan territory. My parents are both...

...born and raised in the Bronx uh, andare both italian, my mother's completely italian, my dad is half andif you were italian in the Bronx you were a yankee fan. Absolutely, you knowthey were, they were the Bronx team and they were also a very, if you look atthe lineups from that era to there were a lot of italian americans in thelineup. So the Yankees were always on in the house. We were not an anti metshousehold. I know for a lot of folks that was kind of a rivalry, but priorto interleague play, who cares or anything ever played each other, wedidn't think about it. Um, so my mom will tell you, I watched the 76 77 78World Series with her sitting on the couch, I would have been 345 Weirdlyenough, I don't remember that the first clear memories I have of anythingbaseball or from 80 and then 81 from the strike year of all things. For meto not just remain of lifelong baseball fan but choose it as my career despitehaving such strong memories of the season interrupted by a strike is sortof strange. I'd like to think it just demonstrates my commitment to the sportin some sort of perverse way. But I was just, it was always on, we were alwaysrooting for the Yankees. Um and if the Yankees weren't on, we were still, wewere watching the mets and we would root for them too. And we were justkind of a baseball house. There was, we'd watch other sports. My dad likesfootball, he was a Green Bay Packers fan, going back to the Bart Starr days,but it was really baseball first and between my parents, my grandmother, wholived until she was 100 and up until her late nineties was still trying tokeep up with the Yankees as much as she could. That's just kind of, that wasour house culture and I fell in love with the sport early and then once Idiscovered to how, you know, just how kind of stats oriented the sport is asjust a kid who loved math. I had a second reason to be particularlyinterested and eventually I would say kind of obsessed with it. Right? So, uh,you know, you talked about watching it. Like when I was growing up, my dad hada little transistor radio and that's what he listened to every pirate gameout in the back porch, you get done with work, you're going to come home,going to yard, cut the grass to the garden, whatever he did. But then healways fell asleep on the camel rider we had listening to the pirates play,which, you know, I kind of would sit there and listen to him too. And that'skind of how you become fans. Right. And so did you guys listen to a lot ofgames as well? Both. Yeah. So the main broadcast crew for the Yankees was PhilRizzuto, uh, the white and frank Messer and they would rotate between the Tvbooth on W. P. I. X. And the radio, which I think was W. Abc back then. Andso if we were outside, we just have a radio on And you know, we could just goin and out. Right. We had, especially once my parents got a small pool set upoutside my sister and I would just kind of go between the two and we couldalways have the game on and I still have a very clear memory, I must havebeen 10 or so and Mel Allen who had retired but was obviously longtimevoice of the Yankees, just came and did a game as a guest appearance and it wassuch a treat for me because I knew who Mel Allen was and he was still the hostof this week in baseball, which I would watch any saturday I could to have toget the experience of listening to him call a portion of a Yankees game seemedlike a real treat and just kind of another way to connect my fandom to myparents fandom as well. Yeah, you know the people who do the radio and thatare really good at it because there's some like it's the same thing here inPittsburgh like you listen to the game and they'll go between tv and radiolike bob walk does it? And a couple other people, some of them are like andthey should say the T. V. Like the other radio guys, you know, because youdon't give you what you're not, your imagination isn't taking over whenthey're talking, right? So the good ones like you're talking about man, youjust you felt like you were right there sitting behind the plate, right? And Ithink that that's what special. So in your neighborhood did you did you guysdo you have a lot of kids around that you guys play baseball and do all thosethings? What did you uh you know where you what was it like for you? Yeah, wewere very very sort of upper class...

...suburban, very white, very prettyprivileged neighborhood on the northern half of Long Island. Long Island iskind of split by the Long Island Expressway. And so right in my littleneighborhood there, my parents moved into that house in 71 70 or 71 therewere a bunch of kids all within, I would say about a year or so of me. Andso there were, especially before I turned, you know, nine or 10 beforepeople started to peel off two more organized activities. There were justalways kids playing outside and I was forged. I lived on a corner lot, we hada kind of a long front lawn to that was very good for playing sports. We couldlike there was remember my mom getting mad because Especially my friend Seanwho lived down the street and I'm still in touch is 16 days older than I am. Umhe and I wore down a patch of grass because that's where we stood, right.Whether even if we were just playing wiffle ball, which there was a lot ofworld football back in those days just because you couldn't break a windowthat way. You know, we just, it was my mom was like, you need to standsomewhere else for home plate because you're killing the grass. My dad usedto do that to me all the time. I'm like, dad, it's grass, it'll grow back. Rightright now. I find myself doing the same thing, like we have female dogs andthey leave these marks all over the uh, kill me. But you know, that's amazing.You talk about, well football. A lot of our guests talk about growing up andplaying whiffle ball and then emulating their favorite players swing. Who wasat that you emulate who, who's the swing that you like to do? I know youhad a favorite, my favorite player was Willie Randolph always was ready,Randolph because he was such a, you know, I think he was my mom's favoriteas well while he was a yankee and that obviously would influence my choice,but it was a combination of his, of his uh not just his swing, but he was seenas just a very smart player, like a real cerebral player, he was verypatient, uh you know, always always took good at bats, he could run, whichwas about the only thing I could ever do in any sports at all was I was fast,but that was about it uh and he was a good different Yeah, right, well that'sgood, especially if someone's chasing you, it's really particularly helpfuland now I actually run for exercise, which was the thing I never thought Iwould do, but my wife got me, it made me start it and suddenly I was like ohactually kind of like this and you know being then we can drop weight kind ofeasily so she's like you exercise twice and you lost £5 sorry, but realRandolph was a good defensive second basement and a smart base runner. Andyeah, I would definitely try to mimic his swing when I played little leaguebriefly I wanted his number. It was he was definitely my guy. But I will admitI'm also I was Don Mattingly fan too because he was the star, right? He andbriefly Ricky Henderson, they were the two stars on the Yankees and Don matt,you know I love Ricky Henderson but whose more of a he moved around a lot.Whereas Mattingly was a yankee from start to finish, so if you were ayankee fan of my era, he was pretty much your guy, He was Donnie Baseball,he was Donnie Baseball. So do you like for me, I collect old vintage baseballcards and that really connects me to the past, right? Of all these playersthat I grew up watching and not only from the Pirates, but from all theseother teams. And then I got my son's into it and they've actually learned alittle bit about the past, right? Because you kind of get into to that,did you, do you collect anything or what? How do you stay in tune with thatpast that that you had with all these people? I did collect when I was a kid.I just found out recently went down to see my my family in northern Virginiaand turns out my brother in law has somehow inherited my collection becausemy parents were like, do you want them? I was like no, they're not worthanything. And if they become worth something someday that's fine forsomeone else. I don't want the hassle of storing them are looking at them orwhatever. It turns out, he's got them and he said some of them might be wortha little something. Said you'd sell...

...them, take them out. I don't care atthis point. Like those are um I don't associate associate the cards with thecards. The cards were collecting the cards and he went to some card showswhen I was in high school and that was kind of a big thing briefly. But to meI was always a little separate from my fandom. I would like to get cards ofcertain players I liked. But once it became a thing where you know, you werecollecting this card because it might be worth something that started toseparate it for me from actually following the sport on the field. Ilike, I'm still often say I like baseball for the baseball. I sound likea grumpy old man when I talk about going to games and there's too muchtime between innings and I don't care about the entertainment that's going onbetween the innings or the, you know, I could do with a lot less music eventhough I love music, but I'm here for the, I'm here for the baseball. I justwant the baseball, my fandom as just when it comes to baseball is like,weirdly, may be artificially kind of pure. I just want the baseball. And ifyou want people are like, why? Like a good brawl, breaking out of sex? Gowatch hockey. I'm here for the baseball. Yeah, Baseball is, you know, especiallywith this age of how everything is Tiktok, everything's speeding up.That's one thing I wonder how baseball is gonna, you know, because I think, Ifeel like you're a purist in that sense, like you want the baseball, but whenyou watch it and you compare it to football and basketball and how theaction and how fast the games move. Baseball is not like that and to getyounger people to, to watch it. How do you feel about like, are there thingsthat you think baseball could do to change that? Because it's hard? Thereare, and I actually think Major League Baseball kind of knows what they are.Um, and they don't seem to be moving enough in the direction of doing so.One is just getting the baseball, which they said they were going to do goinginto this season and in spring training, the balls were not dead. They were aslively as they've been the last couple of years. And in the very early going,this isn't really enough data to draw firm conclusion. But I don't think thebaseballs are any less lively than they've been the last couple of years.And the problem is more balls hit into the seats means fewer balls hit intoplay for fielders to field and there's less, so there's less fielding, lessgreat fielding, less bad fielding. We saw some bad fielding and watch some ofthe white sox game last night. There's some very bad fielding and there's, andthere's less space running. We just want more runners. We want more thingshappening on the actual field of play because people do like that, they'reexciting and they generate highlights, which as you said in our sort of, yoursocial media oriented time period here. People want things they can clip andshare and frankly the league's should do that too. And the other thing theycan do and I've argued this for a while is to raise the bottom of the strikezone. The bottom, the size of the strike zone has changed over the years.It's always going to be true until we do automated strike zones. But onething we've seen is that the very bottom of the strike zone has had agradual drift downward. And that's allowed the pictures like Dallascritical to live at the bottom of the zone. It's ground ball, ground ball,ground ball, that's good for them. However, those pitches aren't going toget, hitters can't really do much with those pitches. So they're left to takehim for a strike or they hit him right into the ground. And that's not reallywhat we're looking for. We want a strike to be a pitch that if the hitterswings, he's got a pretty good chance to hit it hard into play. And then youget what I just said. Fielders, fielding runners running, we don't getthat. And if they raise the bottom of the strike zone a little bit, forcepictures to pitch more towards the sort of sweet spot of the zone for hitters,you'll get more of that. Ultimately. They should all be in service of moreof the time of the baseball game, should be taken up by balls getting hitinto play. Fielder's going after them and runner circling the basis. Yeah, Ilike that because if you're dead in the ball a little bit, it's gonna letpictures say, okay, my chances have given up a home run probably aren't asgood. So I'm going to throw more strikes, right? I mean, you know,you're gonna not get a Glavine and maddux, we're leaving it. Those guyswere, to me were unbelievable with their control and there, you know, it'snot like they were thrown hard, they...

...were just there never just so accurate.It was unbelievable. But I like that idea of defending the baseball just toput it in play to get more action going on in the game, right? Because I alsofeel like guys don't like there's so many ball pitches being taken now, like,because of their technology is so good, they learn how to see the ball comingout of the hand faster. So, uh, you know, I think if if you if you makethat strike down a little smaller, make the pitcher's pitch over the plate alittle more dead in that ball, put it in play, you're going to see more ofthat action. That And the other thing I don't think they do a great job of inbaseball is the draft. Like if you look at the draft and other leagues, theyreally like who's coming next? What's the next? Like, you see all thesethings and in baseball, uh, we don't get a lot of that information just outthere like that. Right? The draft isn't something that's promoted like any, anyof the other sports. So it's like guys like you're writing about and have togo see about it instead of hearing about it all the time over social media.Yeah. Now they've moved the draft this year, uh, for the first time, the draftis going to be in july, it's gonna be held during the All Star break. Soobviously that's all moved. So now we're in Denver, um, which is great,fully support major League Baseball's decision. But the futures game, whichis the prospect game that happens during All star Week, that will be onsunday and then sunday night they will begin the draft. And that means one,it's, it's good for the sport I think because now the draft takes place afterthe college World Series. So all the players are done, players couldactually come to the draft maybe. And the other thing is it's no longer draftwould be on a night where in june on a night when there were other baseballgames. So now it's going to be the one baseball thing that's on maybe we canget more people to watch because part of this is a chicken and egg problemright? There are a few folks like me and Jonathan Mayo and jim cows and MLBand eric long and Hagen at fangraphs. There's about five or six of us maybewho are full time jobs are prospects and we do the draft. We cover the draft.That's not that many really. And there's only so much we can do. We onlyhave so much reach. Even if you smash us all together, we can't make thedraft more of a thing. Major League Baseball's take that first step. And Ithink isolating the draft as this is the one thing you're going to watchthis night if you're a baseball fan, even if you just stay for the firstround and then there'll be plenty of information out there to tell you whyJack lighter, who's the best prospect in this year's draft. If the Pirates dotake him number one, here's what he is. Here's why it was a good pick. We cando that. But the draft has to be, they have to put it up on its pedestal andsay no this is a marquee event for us. Just like it is for the other threemajor sports in the U. S. Yeah I think I figured who they were talking about,who was it that maybe the rookie I saw an article that you were on or maybe itwas a podcast that you did and I'm talking about the rookie of the yearlast year and like the season really didn't happen and nobody even knows whothis guy is but he's incredible baseball player. So they were talkingabout can he be rookie of the year again this year? And you were like nolike yeah that's not gonna happen again. But you know they're trying to figureout like we didn't even like nobody even knows who this guy is. Like youprobably everybody knows who Justin Herbert is with the chargers, right?That that like this amazing rookie of the year, this quarterback that cameout because the NFL just just pump that out all the time and the other part ofit. I feel like with baseball that we don't follow the rookies closely enough,like they don't like when they make the major leagues, there's not like youstill got your stars urine judges and all the other stars that are out therethat are, you know, promoted more than any of the rookies where the NFL, it'slike it's really big when a rookie goes out and performs well. I wonder howmany baseball fans and I'm not just sort of dismissing anybody here, butpeople who follow the sport, how many could name last year's two rookies ofthe year I recognized last year was a cluster and it's not a regular season.But You know how many people could tell you that Kyle Lewis and Devin Williamswon the rookies of the year in 2020, I guess it's not very many also does nothelp that they play for Seattle and...

Milwaukee respectively. And those teamsdo get less coverage, especially on a national scale, but when the rookie ofthe year is not mike trout, it's not somebody of that caliber. It's notsomebody like Aaron Judge. It's true, the coverage is less and there's, thisis a problem baseball has had going back to forever basically is they havenever quite figured out how best to market their young stars and right nowwe've got an incredible crop of superstar young players, one Soto andFernando Tatis, Jr Ronald Acuna. Uh these guys should be on the cover ofall the things right? The major League Baseball should be pushing these guysout constantly because they're super talented. They're very young and theywere all really fun to watch. That's another thing, I think it's lost alittle bit too. I love my trout, but there is a difference in style of playbetween my trout say, and to teach junior or junior junior behavior by isa little older. But a player like him, those guys play with a little moreenthusiasm, a little more energy and sometimes more swagger and that maysell a little bit better. And I don't think you're trying to make themanything. They're not just saying no, this is baseball has personality. Wehave players with life and energy and enthusiasm and it's very catchycatching when you get into it. But we don't do enough to put those playersfront and center. And they should be out there in all any attempts to marketthe sport in the market or individual players. Those are the guys on which weshould be focusing and I just have never really thought Major Leaguebaseball did a good enough job marketing those players. Yeah, I agree.I mean if Ozzie smith was running out and doing one of his flips today right,he'd be all over the place. Absolutely. People love that. Like they love thatkind of uh even when he was the mad Hungarian to the picture like you, ohmy God, it was great like he'd get behind the mound. Yeah, I know, but I'mcrazy like there was like craziness to it, but he was just a picture, right?But he had this whole persona that he put on and and I loved watching it andyou know, there were just things like that that I think baseball doesn't takeadvantage of, like you're saying so so we go into, when you were in highschool, did you play sports in high school? Did you know, at that time youwanted to be a writer? What was that high school experience like for you? Idid not play sports. I wasn't very good at it. Uh and you know, sort of laterfound out I was kind of never going to be able to have the strength musclewise. When my daughter was born, I discovered you learn a lot about yourjeans. Once you start having kids, it's like this was clearly not in the cards,but I was, I was a good student and I loved, I loved math and baseball's theperfect sport if your numbers at all and writing always came easy to me. Idon't think I appreciated that until I was an adult and started doing somewriting just on the sides and baseball writing just for fun when I was in myearly twenties and pursuing a non sports career and it opened some doorsfor me and made some connections and through kind of some good luck. And uhthe little networking ended up going to doing some freelance work for ESPN,ended up with the blue jays for a little bit in their front office, buteven while I was with the blue jays and there's a lot, I learned a lot, therewas a lot I didn't like about that uh that role and that work, life balanceor imbalance, I should say, and left right around my right around, mydaughter was born to be a full time writer. And after I'd been writingreally for a few months I sort of realized, no, this this is what I liketo do. I really love writing for writing sake. I love the work, I lovethe content of what I do. And especially in the last few weeks I'verealized I really missed going to life baseball games like a lot. But justwriting about it too, is is writing about anything just does something forme. Uh you know, I'm a pretty secular guy, but in a spiritual sense, itreally just fulfils me in a way that very few other activities do. And Icouldn't have told you that in high school. In fact, I would have told youI hated english class because why do we...

...have to read all these stupid old books,which by the way, I've reread some of them and as an adult and realized, oh,that's, that's why we read that. Yeah, that's actually really good. Yeah, butjust listen to them. Yeah, that works too. You know what, when I'm driving togames, which is now it's happening more. I do audio books all the time. I ampeople say to me, well, don't you love, you know, paper books, Dead tree books.Yes, I do. But I literally, I have my kindle right here. I was reading rightbefore we got on and I do audio books. I'm like a book is a book, I don't careas long as it's the whole book. I don't do the bridge books, which is fine forsomething that's just not me. But a book is a book. I don't care the forum,I love getting lost in a good book. And and I mean, it turns out I love writingand I always tell young people to younger people who ask me, you know,what should I do to become a writer, what advice do you see? The first thingyou have to do is be a good reader. If you want to be a good writer, you haveto be a good reader, the more you read it will help you develop your own voiceand appreciate the different ways in which people use the language toexpress themselves. Yeah, that that's amazing. Everyone welcome to huddle upwith gusts were talking with keith Law, keith new book, The Inside Game, Badcall, strange moves and what baseball behavior teaches us about ourselves isout now. You can also find us at huddle up with gusts dot com and you can alsogo to Manscaped used to code Gus Frerotte, that's F R E R O T T E, get20% off and free shipping on any products. Uh we're gonna take a quickbreak, we'll be right back, we're talking to keith law. Hey, how come up with us listeners?Manscaped. Well they sent me uh they hooked me up with a bunch of tools andformulations for their package three point oh kit. So you know, I want toshow you guys what's in the perfect package, right? We all think we got aperfect package, but they sent me the perfect package three point okay, and Iwant to show you what they sent me. So it was crazy. It came in this great boxuh you know, and you can see what it says. They will thank you because theysent us this awesome trimmer. They sent us uh you know stuff that makes yousmell better and then uh you know, they sent me this great uh some boxers whatyou get right, protect them and then uh you know, they sent me this cool uh,sad, I guess you want to call it uh, to store all your stuff in. So, uh, it'sbeen great. Manscaped sent me a bunch of product. Um, you know, and you know,you can see it all on here. Uh, you know, you can go to uh, manscaped dotcom and put in the code. Uh, Gus Frerotte, that's G. U. S. F. R E R O TT E. Uh, get 20% off and free shipping when you use that code. But you can geta kit, you can get individual items like, uh, this way cool rumor that hasa little led light, um, ceramic. Uh, these things come apart, They'rewaterproof. You can do a lot with them. So, you know, uh, Manscaped is great.You know, it's funny, uh, I remember when I was playing with the Denverbroncos and I'm not going to mention any names, but there was a gentlemanwho was playing on our team. And uh, you know, if you ever hears the story,you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. But he brought his own clippersin one time and he used to trim his beard up, his goatee and everything andhe had him there for about two or three weeks and he goes in around the corner,he walks in and there's a person, another player that is actuallymanscaping with his beard trimmer. So, you know, one of the things is, youdon't want to use the same trimmer down there that you use up here. So uh hekind of freaked out a little bit and he...

...said, hey, how long have you been usingthat tool there? And he said, well showed up here about three weeks agoand I've been using it ever since, so, you know, there is a lesson learnedthat, you know, don't leave things out and probably, uh if it would have justsaid manscaped on it were, we would have had that issue, but it's probablyone of the funniest, uh taking care of your balls stories I've ever heard orbeen around in the locker room in the NFL, so it's a great story. Um but youknow, I always said there was no way to know, there's no name on it and the guywas just using it and another guy was using, it was not good, but it's a heckof a funny story. So one of the best I've ever heard in my 15 years playingin the league, um but you know, there's so many great things about manscapedand what they're doing, uh because guys, you got to take care of yourself, eventhough I got great hair um and getting older, but you still have to maintainsome sort of grooming, right? And so uh you know, we all work out for me. Ilike working in my yard doing those things now that I'm retired. Get alittle sweat on and everything. You want to smell good. You know, you gotto take care of yourself, They got some great products, uh uh you know, thisone, uh a little uh ball deodorant, we'll need that here and there. Umafter, you know, working the yard, taking a hike, doing a walk, whateveryou do. Um It's a great thing, but there's so many great products. Um, Iwant to thank Manscaped for sending them to me. Uh The lawnmower 3.0.Obviously you can use it anywhere in your body, but I'm sure you guys haveall seen the commercials, but this is one just letting you know uh that uhthe lawnmower three point comes with the perfect kit. You can buy thelawnmower by itself by all these products individually. They even sentme this wonderful shirt, You can see the back, uh your balls will thank you.And then here's the front. So it's an awesome shirt, Have great gear. Uh Andyou know what, so sometimes you can just sit back, take care of your ballsa little bit and read the paper. So uh Manscaped even has their own daily news.Uh so which is great. So don't forget that you can go to the code. Uh GusFrerotte and that's G. U. S. F. R. E. R. O. T. T. E. Uh And you can save 20% onany products. The complete the perfect uh package gift set and uh you know,you can save 20% and get free shipping. So use the code Gus Frerotte, G. U. S.F. R. E. R. O. T. T. E. Uh Hey everybody spells my name wrong, theyeven spelled it wrong in the back of my pro bowl jersey. So you know, I gotta Igotta help you guys out, so don't forget how important it is that you usethese products, take care of yourself down below. Uh And have some fun. Allright, there's nothing uh closer to you than your little buddies. Uh So use thelawnmower. Uh Use the code Gus Frerotte save 20% and get free shipping and uhorder some great manscaped products. Uh So uh Mhm. Hey everyone welcome back to huddle upwith gusts were talking with keith law, so keith uh Tell me about now. You gofrom high school, you go to Harvard. What was that experience like atHarvard? Did you have a plan already, like what you wanted to do? Or you justsaid, you know, because sometimes you go to school in your mind changes. Whatwas that plan for you when you went to Harvard? Oh yeah, that my I changed mymind multiple times, you know, went to Harvard thinking maybe I be a lawyer orgo, obviously Harvard's a place where...

...people go from there to work ingovernment quite a bit and had thoughts about that and then went there andwithin a year realized that I was not enjoying the subjects, not enjoying theclasses I had to take and some of it was the environment at Harvard, some ofit was me, I think I should shoulder some of the responsibility to that endup switching to major in uh did a combo of Sociology and Economics. Um becauseI took an economics class and said actually I find this stuff kind ofinteresting. This might be a little better fit for me. And did kind of themain path for people coming out of and coming graduating with me from Harvardor around that time who chose to go to work as opposed to going on to graduateschool, which a lot of my classmates did. You know, they're going toinvestment banking or you're going to consultant. And I looked at the hoursfor investment banking and I went to consulting instead. And so I did thatfor a couple of years and it was interesting but also like that's not,that was never the career for me. Those people you can you can make a lot ofmoney. You're on the road constantly and you have no, you sort of parachutein. Tell somebody the old joke. The consultant takes your watch and tellsyou what time it is, definitely felt a little bit of that and certainly thatyou have no ownership over what you do. You give all this advice to companiesand maybe they don't do it at all. Even if they do do it, you're gone. So youdon't really get to stick around see the fruits of your labors. So afterthat decided, you know, I want to go to graduate school and it came toPittsburgh to uh at the time it was G. S. I. A. Now it's the temper school atCarnegie Mellon and decided to get an N. B. A. As also a way to just pivot intodoing something else in the business world. This was still baseball was justa side gig for me and came there and said, you know, let me get some furthereducation I thought was this in economics. I found them all reallyinteresting and that temper school there was pretty rigorous on the on thequantitative side, which really spoke to me as I said earlier, it was kind ofalways yeah, and those numbers are good. I mean whata great school to go to the Tepper School. Um and you know, you got to seea little bit of Pittsburgh Pit, I mean it's all it's all right there. My sonswent to Central Catholic, which is right there. Yeah, so you know thatwell and they used to play over at Carnegie Mellon for some of their homegames. So um you know what a great school, so so you're there, you're youknow, you're in the business, you're saying math is my thing, but it feelslike your passion still wasn't coming through, like you wanted it to know,and I came, I'm still working doing freelance writing for baseballprospectus at the time, this was 97 to 90 and I graduated from temper 99 wentinto the high tech world into work for some startups, work for 1234 differentcompanies um in a couple of years and none of them really clicked and, youknow, I wanted to do more and kept ending up in situations where I wassort of doing less, so either because the company wasn't doing well or itjust wasn't a good fit for me and kept doing baseball writing on the side,ESPN approached me, is this 20 something years ago now, asked me to doa weekly column for them. And so I started doing that on the side as well,and I was certainly putting a lot more of my heart into that stuff than I everwas into the day job. And that led, I left Pittsburgh by that. We lived inshady side while we were there, which was fantastic, great, great little areamoved. I could walk to walk right across that football field every day toget to where the, where the business school was. Now they're in a gorgeousnew building. On the other hand, the new Pepper Schools massive. I was theretwo years ago, two years ago, this month, for my 20th reunion, I was like,dang, I wish I'd gone to school in this building is amazing, Crazy. So we movedback to massachusetts and I worked for a couple startups there, and nothingwas really working out. And then this opportunity with the blue jays kind offell in my lap. It was really sort of dumb luck, a little networking, butmostly luck. And I said, sure, why not? Didn't have kids at the time? It wasflexible and started that job ended up spending 4.5 years with the, with thejays in the front office, primarily as...

...the stats guy, I learned other things,but my main focus of my job was managing the data and especially wasgetting so much of the work at the time was just getting the data. Whereas nowteams have an army of people, 10 to 20 people who actually worked on analysisfor me, the hardest part of the job was just gathering the data, getting it in,putting in a form that we could just do anything at all with it. And now it's,I mean I'm jealous these guys get that they have more fun because they havemore data and the data is there for them and they can spend time doing thereal sort of the number crunching stuff that you know, I'm still, I'm still abig quantity heart and I love that stuff. So you're writing around dataand analytics sent. Is that like kind of how you kind of form you're writing?So it's a mix now because while I was with the jays I worked with a bunch ofguys Tony LaCava and I'm talking about during the break, Tommy tennis shoeswith the mets now, Tony still with the blue jays all these years later bunchof other scouts, you've been become great, great friends to me over theyears and I learned about scouting. I learned how to go out and evaluateplayers the old fashioned way. And what I've always tried to do in my work iscombined. The two go see players or watch video when I can't see theplayers and talked to scouts always talked to scouts because I'm not anexpert and you know this there's just more value in getting more insight,more more, looks more views on players and combining the two so that when I'mtalking about players, I bring both perspectives and I can also talk to youabout the performance or now we have all this very specific statcast data onexit velocities, launch angles and spin rates. That stuff does matter and teamsare using it. So teams like my attitude has always been, if this is how teamsmake decisions then I need to know about it. That is my job. I cover theindustry, I have to understand what they're doing and when I evaluateplayers, I'm not perfect by any means. I get a lot of stuff wrong, but I canat least use a process similar to what they're using. And so I go, I told youthe last couple weekends I've been out to see players. But you know what? Igot on the phone afterwards and spoke to other scouts and said, all right.What do you got? You've seen this guy more than I have. You know what the kidI saw on Friday who was 1993. He's been up to 97 different weeks, but it wasjust really cold and he was working on a little shorter rest than normal andmaybe I didn't see his best. And that's all part of my process now isrecognized. I saw what I saw and my evaluation is what it is. But I have torecognize I saw a kid maybe on one or two days and the whole the completepicture of the player might be very different than that. Yeah. So what some,So your stats guy, your numbers guy, when you're looking at a hitter, right?What what stat do you look for? Like what is that? What do you whatspecifically are you saying these are the this is the 12 or three things thatI look for in this kid. If we're talking about the sort of moretraditional stats, not the statcast stuff, the first thing I'm alwayslooking at is does he get on base Ultimately a hitter's main task is toget on base safely. And so that's primarily an on base percentage. That'sobviously I look a little further than that. But if you just want to look at ahitter, especially a major league hitter and say sky any good, the firstthing you got to look at is on base percentage because it's how often it isliterally how often did he not make it out? That's the hitters #1 job. We wantcertain hitters to hit for power, we want that more maybe at certainpositions or just given what type of player we think they're going to be.But ultimately, if you don't get on base, it's hard to be a valuable majorleague hitter. There are ways, but it's much harder. You're getting off to theright foot on the right foot if you if you do get on base at a good clip. Andnow the second thing I look for and this is a little more true forprospects to is how often do they strike out? Because especially forprospects and I'm talking minor leaguers, I'm talking college playersto if you're striking out a rate that's a little too high, maybe higher thanyour peers at that level, guess what? The pitching only gets better as youget closer to the majors. So if you're striking out, there's a guy in thisdraft who some people thought was a prospect I never, never really did atthe University of florida named Judge Fabian. He's striking out in half ofhis plate appearances in the sec play.

Like it doesn't get easier, right? Ifyou can't hit that pitching, you're not going to hit double a pitching littleand major league pitching. So they are telling you something, the stats tell astory. You do have to understand how to interpret it and make sure not to gettoo caught up in in what they're telling you, but just recognize theseare the facts. This is what the player did, and that is information. That'syour starting point to try to tell the story of the player. Well, if you'relooking at a picture, what is the stat for you, because, you know, I'm surethere's a ton of guys who can throw it kept throwing a heart velocity isnothing these days. I sound like an old man, because I'm like, remember when itused to be, nobody threw 100 miles. And now there's a ton of guys supposedlyHunter Green, there's a story, I'm not sure. I believe it. I've seen HunterGreen 102 supposedly he was hitting 100 and four of the other day while he'scoming back from Tommy john surgery, he has an incredible arm, whatever he'sdoing, it's triple digits. And you know what? That's not enough. There areenough guys who throw hard, like that hitters can hit it, especially if youcan't, if you can't make it move or you don't command it. Well, guess whathitters have figured out how to turn on 100. So that's not it. You gotta showme you can miss bats and you gotta show me you can throw strikes. Those are thetwo things every picture pretty much has to do. You strike guys out and doyou avoid walks? And those are the first two things I'll look at forpictures. Now there are other ways to skin this particular cat. There areground ball pictures and mentioned Dallas chemical earlier, he's not theonly one. And okay, maybe you can get away with not striking out as many guysif hitters can never they can never hit a home run off you. They don't elevatethe ball. There are other ways to do it, but where I start is does he miss bats?And does he avoid walks? And those two things? That's a pretty good startingpoints for understanding what a picture might be able to do. But to me that iseven, it's even more true with pictures than hitters to, I may go see a pictureand tell you, oh, it's a plus fastball above average breaking while he canreally spin it and I can see him and hey, I change his delivery a little bit,get him to stride more towards the plate and then he might command hisfastball better. And that you may get one story from the scouting side that'sdifferent from the story that the numbers telling. This is even more true.The far they are from the major is the more that you want to try to tell thatstory and say this is what the player is now. But this is what the playeralso could be Because we're Talking about, I only see players going down tohigh school. You may talk to other guys in the industry. If you ever talked toa scout on the international side, they're watching kids as young as 13down in the Dominican Republic and Venezuela and Panama. And I can't evenimagine how to start that evaluation. Yeah, That's that's that's crazy. I am.So when I lived in ST louis, I had a good friend, Chris carpenter, uh, youknow, picture for the Cardinals. So chris was rehabbing and we would throwall the time. I was retired at this point. Right, okay, throw and um, hecouldn't throw a football saved his life, but he couldn't do very differentthings. People don't get that. Yeah, there are baseball. It doesn't mean Ieventually got him throw a spiral. So it was good. But that's good. You know?And I'm like, you know, I could throw a football pretty hard, right? I couldthrow. I mean, that was a gift I was given. I could throw a football prettyhard. And there I'm throwing with a major league pitcher and I'm like,we're throwing, he's rehabbing and we're throwing 100 yards apart and I'mlobbing the ball just trying to get it there and he's putting it on a rope.And I'm like, he says crazy. I know I could throw harder and there's likethis competition coming out in me, you know? And, and then he goes, hey, Ineed to work on somebody standing in where you stand in while I throw someBP. And I'm like, sure. And I'm standing there with the bat and I'mlike, Yeah, I don't really know how people hit this. Like, it's great. Hewasn't even close. He was like 70 75 of his normal self. And I'm like Okay thisguy's 65 standing on the mound. He's not even like he's just working on alittle bit of throwing, not really thrown any curves or you know, like Icouldn't imagine that. It's crazy like until you've ever really done it, youjust don't know how people can hit that...

...stuff. I remember God was just 22 yearsago. So every usually every year pre pandemic. I try to take my daughter onone scouting trip every year with me, usually on their spring breaks. Acouple years ago we went to Kentucky to University of Kentucky and they havehad a picture is now with the Giants, he's still a prospect. Sean jelly. H. J.E. L. L. E. He is six ft 11. He doesn't even throw, he's just average velocity.It's mostly 1992. But when he gets extended towards the plate, imagine ifyou're halfway there right? Imagine if you're right handed hitter, you'resitting there like this, that ball's gotta look like it's coming from behindyour ear. You have no time to react. And if he ever throws harder and he'sdone it a little bit here and there on the side, he starts throwingconsistently harder. Hitters are gonna have no chance. They will have no timeto react to that whatsoever. It's like randy johnson, right? I guess he waslike, I mean you're watching pitch and by the time he's letting it go, he's inthe grass. Yes, not even a anymore. 610 and he came from a little lower slot toso left on. I mean, he's good against everybody but left on left. Same thingthat ball looks like it's coming from behind you and you have no time toreact. And we you know we mentioned statcast that's one of the things teamsreally focused on now is we just call it extension tristan Mackenzie who's akid who's up with these up with Cleveland right now. He pitched theother day. He's got close to 7.5 ft extension, some of the highestextension towards the plate in the major leagues. Now he's tall but hemakes the most of what he has to. Scouts always talked about that getsout over his front side. But now we can quantify it too. So we compare the twothings together, the scouts told the story. The stats can verify it and weknow that's one thing that we know really does help because it just giveshitters less time to react to the ball. Are they doing anything? So like infootball right they put these R. F. I. D. Tags on the players and now they'regoing to try and put them in the football so that you can quantifyeverything in football now. Like how fast the guys running, what he's moving.Are they doing that in baseball? Are they putting those tags on baseballplayers? Because I think like all that you're talking about with a picturelike those You wouldn't think six makes a difference. But if you're if you'retalking about length from the pitching mound to where they're letting the ballgo six makes a huge difference. Yeah and it's a fracture. You're talkingabout fractions of seconds where hitters have time to react to anything.You can shave off 1/100 of a second makes a big difference. And what thestatcast information which we have in the majors. Almost every minor leaguepark now, a lot of colleges have put in that kind of equipment. Those areseparate cameras and radar devices that are that are just around the stadium.What so many individual teams do now is they use devices that are on often onthe players. Like there's the modest sleeve that a picture will wear. Itgoes from there there on the elbow and a lot of these devices for they'retrying to measure things like very basic physics like force expended inthat case, it's what's going on in the elbow while you pitch because thenumber one injury, the pictures suffer. Baseball Tommy john surgery. It's a aterrible ligament. This just happened. The guy who coming into the year, Ithought he was one of the top five prospects in the draft class. JadenHill, he's at L. S. U. And then he started to struggle. Three weeks ago,he walked off the mound last saturday. He had an M. R. I. On monday partialtear. Probably gonna Tommy john surgery. Now, I'm not saying we could haveprevented that with these devices, but major league teams especially or tryingto put these motives sleeves on prospects to detect is something inyour delivery, putting too much stress on the elbow. And that's new. That'sreally new just in the last couple of years and teams are keeping it. That'sinternal. That's proprietary stuff that we don't see on the outside. But if youtold me I was in a front office in player development, hell yeah. I wantthat information. If we know that kid has too much force, there's the valdasforces one of them that's on the elbow, that might be eventually lead to atearing of that ligament. Yeah, I want to know that sooner so we can see if wecan do something about it. How you think about, you know, old school waswhen, when you see that, you know,...

Nolan Ryan pitched 22 innings in a game,right? Or like their arms, do you think that arm strength was built up becausethey get, they pitched so much, you know where that you know, you didn'thear, I mean Tommy john obviously has happened but it seems like today it'shappening more and more, is it because of their, I just feel like going 56endings. Is it like building your arm strength up? Because for me, two daysin training camp, throwing the football as much as I could, that's what builtmy arm up. It wasn't in the weight room doing band, I mean obviously you haveto do that stuff, but it was actually the throwing that actually got your armready to go there. There's, there's two things going on there, The Nolan Ryaneffect. And there were obviously lots of lots of guys like him who wouldthrow 300 plus innings a year that used to be the norm. Um, you know, a lot ofthat, I talked about this in the inside game. A lot of that is, it's calledsurvivor bias. We remember the guys who survived, but if you look back, therewere a lot of guys in Nolan Ryan's era, Mark Fidrych remember he was rookieyou're talking about? Yeah, he, they pitched him out of the game, basically.He pitched so much as a young pitcher the first year or two that he justbroke down. And at the time we didn't really have the medical capabilities tohelp a guy like that. Remember Pete Vukovich, who scouted for, he was withthe pirates for a long time, Used to see him on the road quite a bit whenthe Cy young award in 82 blew out his shoulder is rotator cuff almostimmediately afterwards. Never really got back from that. Those guys, theircareers ended because of injuries. Maybe today, that guy would get to keeppitching. But we remember the ones who survived it, Nolan Ryan, good point.And also Nolan Ryan, I'm sure you've seen him. The man had to redwood treesfor legs. You show me a kid like that. I'm interested. You got the Nolan Ryanbody comp were, that's my car was like huge. I was always like, you know, youknow, when I retired, I go over his house, we do like he loved crossfit andwe would do crossfit. I'm keeping up with him and he was just insane aboutlike he was a workout freak. You know, you could see like I could see why hewas good on the mound. Like he could just go and go and go. You also, youbrought up another point. I talk a lot about survivor by talking about pitchcounts quite a bit in the inside game, but I actually, even as somebody whofollows the data and has long argued for, especially high schools andcolleges need to pitch these guys less than they are. But in pro ball, I thinkwe've gone so far in the other direction where we were two years ago.Yeah, I guess it was 2019, the last time we had a minor league season. TheOrioles have a very, very good prospect in Grayson Rodriguez, I think he threw70 innings the whole year because they were trying to protect his arm. And tome there's that's too far in the other direction this kid could have thrown. Iwas at a game where he got pulled after 65 pitches and he was fine, he had lostnothing by that last inning. And I sort of sat there saying, Is this really thethis is the best way to develop a picture. I'm not I'm not saying I knowthe best way, but taking a kid like that out, when he's still going 100%,there's no sign that he is tiring. Why not build him up a little bit more? Seeif you can just get the moment that his velocity starts to drop where all thewhole stadium is going to know it. We have a technology now, then you takehim out, but try to build him up more and maybe we won't develop all thesefive and dive starters. Now, maybe we can have guys who can go six, you wantto see if he can go and when he pitches his 110th inning, if he's as strong ashe was when he pitched his first inning, right, that's a sign of a good picture.Absolutely. And it tells you what that, what is the best way to use thatpicture. You know, if you got a guy who's, hey, you know what, he's fiveinnings and he's done and that's just always going to be who he is. That'sfine. We use those guys now. But I also want to know, is he one of those guysor is he one of those guys who can throw 78 innings? You can do thatwithout breaking them, right? You can just push, we know we have so muchtechnology now that the moment of guys stuff starts to drop, Everyone knows it.They'll know it in the dugout. They'll know it upstairs. All of us behind,sitting behind the plate with our radar guns will notice it too. You can takethat guy out before there's any damage...

...done. And I just would like to seeteams try to build these pictures up. A pro teams do it more and college teamsdo it a little bit less. So you talked about the inside game, your book, Tellme about what baseball behavior teaches us about ourselves. Like what does thatmean doing? Like I'm trying to figure out like, I mean, I played baseballthrough high school and I ended up going and play football in college. Icould have done either. But tell me a little bit what baseball teaches usabout ourselves. Yeah, baseball is because baseball's the sport of justdiscrete events. One pitch, one pitch, one pitch or one at bat. It is greatfor breaking down decisions. There's a million decisions happening in everybaseball game between games and every offseason. Whether it's what to dowithin a game or sign this player, where to bat this player, what trade tomake, who to draft. We got a ton of decisions to break down and what Ithink I did. What I tried to do in this book was talk about some of these ideasfrom from economics and from psychology, about how we make decisions and thecognitive biases that screw us up everybody absolutely everybody up. Butexplain those using baseball. We see we see these biases come into play andlead to bad decisions in baseball all the time. And so if I can use baseballstories to explain kind of some academic material, but not make itsound like I don't want to write a textbook. I wanted to write a fun bookthat was based on things people in front offices were telling, People infront offices are reading some of these economics books, like thinking fast andslow. The Daniel Kahneman won a Nobel prize for this stuff. I own that book,I've read it. It's not for everybody. Certainly if you don't have much of aneconomics background, that book is gonna be a little tough. Why can't Iwrite a book like that? That just anybody can read? That explains thesethings because if you're human, you're prey to survive or bias or recency biaswith the most recent thing you saw or read just weighs more heavily in yourthinking because because it's just right there like on the at the veryfront of your brain. And I thought I could explain these things with lots offun baseball examples, lots of which people remember Grady little takingleaving Pedro Martinez in, in that playoff game in 2003. We all screamedat our televisions when that happened. Let me talk about that in terms ofstatus quo bias and how that might have gotten into Grady little's head and lethim to make a bad decision. Yeah. Like the whole, when I was with the Vikingsin 0304, we had a guy come in and he talked about choices, decisions andconsequences. Right? So there's all these choices that, that are out therefor us, baseball, right? There's a lot of choices teams can make and tradesand minor leagues and all this stuff going on. I mean, we've watched, Iwatched the Pirates obviously we've had some struggles here with them, but youknow, they got rid of, uh, what am I not remember? Clint hurdle right thereforever Now. They got a new coach in there trying to rebuild. I don't evenknow half these players on here. Like I'm like, who are the old school names?But those choices, decisions and consequences, I think or what you'retalking about and that makes right to everyday life for all of us. And Ithink it's awesome that you put it to baseball. The, you know, the thatframework is great, right? We have that you have, the choice is in front of you.What do you do with those choices and how do you decide between them? WhatI'm trying to talk about in this book? Is that step right there going fromchoices to the actual decision and how to make choices with a better justimprove your process. Sometimes your gut leads you wrong because of thesevarious biases I'm talking about in the book and it's a lot of stop get thedata, get the more information. It could be as simple as asking one or twomore people. It could be as complicated as going to your analytics guy nomatter what industry you work in and saying, hey, we need more data on this.Give me give me a real analysis of all of the options rather than just jumpingin and falling prey to what literally availability bias is literally, it'sthe first thing that came to mind and that's what you choose. We do this, weall do this as human beings and we can...

...do better, But we have to, you have toknow someone has to explain this to you. I didn't know about this stuff until 10years ago I read this book was like, Oh, I do that stuff all the time. Of coursethey do. I'm a human being and once, you know what they are and you canstart to learn about how do I work around this to make better decisions?You will make better decisions. Yeah, I think about like, uh, the old timebaseball, like we always say we're showing our age, but like the manager,you know, back when they could smoke in the dugout and he's just like, I thinkit's time to pull them like, no, no analytics or anything, just, I thinkit's time, you know, I mean, it's just changed now. Like they're on the phone,they're like, okay, give me the stats, right, what's going on? You mustremember Earl weaver, He would be sitting there with a pack of indexcards and it was, you know, at the time, that was the best data available. Andhe, despite being as old school and crotchety and foul mouth chain smokedall of that, but guess what? He wanted data to make better decisions and hewas a pioneer. He was 20 years ahead of his time in that regard. And I stilltalk about him a lot. We are coming back around as a sport to the way healways said, the best way to break in a young pitcher is as a long man in thebullpen, you see teams doing that maybe in the last 23 years, he was doing that40 years ago. He actually, his decisions were far more data drivenwasn't always right, but he was really good because he said, this is theevidence I have, is all the data that there is. I want it all and I want tohave it all at my fingertips in a game when I'm trying to make decision nowthat's much more routine and we have much more data. But I say, look, thisisn't new school, we just have better information. Earl Weaver's as oldschool as it gets and he was doing that stuff. So Weaver would have been happyas a pig in slop, right if he had access to all this data. Oh my gosh.Yeah, he would probably he probably would have loved it. You know, not onlyjust pictures but hitters, catchers, everyone, you know how fast can acatcher get the ball out of his hand and get a second. We have that down tothe 100th of a second. I just did that the other day I was watching a kid fromMiami, he didn't even between innings. He wasn't throwing anything under twoseconds. I'm like, you know what, I don't know, maybe he can still catch,but he can't throw. You cannot if you draft that guy is that guy is going togo in the first round. Del Castillo, he's going to go in the first round.But you take him, if you think he's going to be a catcher, you're acceptingfrom the get go, he is never going to control the running game because hejust doesn't have the arm strength. We know that that is data that we havethat's very firm. And then you see a guy like Yadier Molina who's stilldoing it after playing all these years. Like it's amazing. Absolutely amazing.Um Yeah, so I think I think that how you related to baseball is good. It'sjust like life. We all need analytics and data. I mean from financial stressto everything else that goes on in our lives, this data helps us get throughhard times. And I think that the baseball is no different. A lot ofteams are getting through hard time. If you even think about, you know, thesalary cap and all that data that goes into that and how they have to, I meanwe see the astronomical numbers that some of these guys are getting. But italso goes back to that data showing that it brings in fans, we sell moreassurance. We put more butts in the seats, All those things make influenceall of that. Yes, absolutely. Um You know, I the one thing I would say thatpeople who are fans of of you know, the Pirates now are in this, in this, youknow, they're they're building, it's hard to say they're even rebuilding.they're just building right now. The Orioles are in this situation, theRockies are going to enter this situation, Iraqis might be a differentscenario, but what the pirates they pick first this year, last time theypicked first they took Derek Kohler turned out to be a great pick. Thereare good things happening with the Pirates. They are headed in the rightdirection. I like Ben Cherington a lot. I've known him forever and I think he'sgonna, and I know he's a very data driven guy, he wants evidence behindhis decisions, they're going to make better choices and they will start torebuild. They are rebuilding. And I think the system, I think NeilHuntington actually left the system in okay shape, all things considered andto bend and inherit, like in Baltimore they inherited scorched earth, somebodyhad salted the fields and nothing was...

...growing up in Pittsburgh was not likethat and so they're going to get there, they are going to make better decisions.The short term may be very painful. This first week, I'm sure was extremelypainful for Pirates fans given up 14 to the Reds was not good. Not good. No, Imean the fact is they're rolling out some pictures who just shouldn't be inthe big leagues unfortunately, but that's what this year is going to belike. But the direction is good and one thing you can take heart in is knowingthat the people in charge, they do think this way they do want evidenceand then like Scouts, he scouts himself, he's not gonna ignore the Scouts, hewants all the information when you get all the possible inputs that youpossibly can get from scouting and from analytics, you're going to make thebest possible decisions or you're at least setting yourself up to make thebest possible decisions. Well that's good. I've been a long term pirate fan,so I know I'm gonna be in it for the long run and and we've been through theups and downs and you know, everybody in Pittsburgh just wants them to be onthe same level as the Steelers and the penguins and hopefully someday we canget there. But so so keith tell everyone all my fans how they can getyour book, how they can follow you and what you're up to. Sure. So the InsideGame came out in paperback on april 6th, you can get it everywhere, it's onbookshop dot org. It's on amazon. Um I have been tweeting a thread of localbookstores around the country that I know have it in stock. Just I'm a bigbook local bookstore guy and they've all suffered a lot during the pandemic.So if you've got one nearby give them a call, see if they've got to see if theycan order it for you. They really appreciate the business. You'd be doingsome good with your money to um if you want to find more of my work, I'm onthe Athletic, you can find me on twitter at keith Law. Um I am also Ialso have my own blog. It's at Meadow party dot com slash blog where I writeabout all kinds of non baseball things. All that's free, all my stuff. TheAthletic, you have to subscribe to read so I'm lots of places I did say earlier.I love to write and I sort of can't seem to stop myself even when it's notthe job, I just have this urge to sit down, start writing right now. That'sawesome. That's awesome. Alright, huddle up with gusts fans. We want tothank keith Law for joining us, giving us a little inside look into baseballscouting. If you want to follow them. Obviously you can go to a metal party,you can follow him at the athletic and really get some great informationbehind the data and analytics and and maybe find the prospects that your teamis looking for. Sochi. Thank you again for joining us on huddle up with gusts.My pleasure. Thanks for having me. Yeah. All right everyone, thanks for joiningme. There was another great episode, appreciate you being here. Don't forgetto go to manscaped.com and check out the code. Gus Frerotte and get 20 offwhatever you you need for your your current situation. Uh take care ofyourself. And then also I want to thank 1631 Digital News Sounder FM,appreciate you for being a partner. And we'll see you next week on huddle upwith gusts. And that's a wrap sportsman. Thanks forjoining in the fun at the 16 31 digital studios for another to huddle up withGusts featuring 15 year NFL quarterback. Aspirin, Huddle up with Gus is proudlyproduced by 16 31 digital media and is available on apple music.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (139)