Huddle Up with Gus
Huddle Up with Gus

Episode · 8 months ago

Keith Hirshland

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Welcome to the huddle with 15-year NFL quarterback Gus Frerotte! On today’s show, Gus hosts a pioneer in sports broadcasting, Keith Hirshland who as a sports television producer with more than three decades of experience snagged himself an Emmy Award for his unique presentations of professional golf. In fact, he produced shows that aired on ESPN and ESPN2 and later were among the first forty people hired by The Golf Channel in 1994. He was in the middle of the action when it premiered in 1995 and provided his talents for all golf networks for close to two decades. Gus and Keith get into the weeds about how television broadcasting of professional golf evolved over time, what it was like traveling and being around some of the golf treats, and what the outlook is for the future of televised golf.  

Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of huddle up with Gus, I'm your host, former NFL quarterback Gus Frerotte and welcome to the new 16 31 digital new studio. You know, some people say no news is good news. Well I say to those people you've never read. 16 31 digital news dot com. Go to 16 31 digital news dot com to get your latest news, sports, music and entertainment and maybe even listen to your favorite podcast. Follow up with Gusts. Check it out today at www. 16 31 digital news dot com. Huddle up with Gusts is brought to you by Vegas sports advantage, clients of Vegas. Sports advantage are winning big in 2021 you can be a part of the winning two. As of june 1st $100. Bettors are up $3700 500 dollars. Bettors are up $18,500 and $1000. Bettors are up $37,000 and $5000. Bettors are up $185,000 become inclined today by clicking the link in the description below and use promo code, huddle up To take 25% off your package today. Thanks to our partnership. Welcome to what surely will be a doozy of a matchup brian here. Sports fans. Whether your game is on the gridiron at the diamond or on the links, we can only say welcome to this week's huddle up with gusts. 15 year NFL quarterback Gus parents passion for sports has taken him on the field and behind the bench is playing for seven NFL franchises with 114 TVs under his belt. Gust knows who the players are and how the games are. One. Uh, it's not every day you get to hang out with an NFL quarterback up. Okay, Sports fans from the decked out and plush 16 31 digital studios, it's kick off time. So snap your chin straps on and get ready to huddle up with us two left. Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of huddle up with Gus, I'm your host, Gus Frerotte, 15 year NFL quarterback and I want to thank you for listening. I also want to thank all of our partners. 16 31 digital news. I want to thank my team, terry Shulman and super producer brian. I also want to thank sounder FM. Where we host our podcast. They do a great job of taking podcasts and transcribing them, putting them on youtube and doing everything. You need to have a successful podcast. And I also want to thank Vegas sports advantage. There are partner, go to Vegas sports advantage, putting my coat huddle up, save 25% and you know, if you really want to win some serious cash on betting. If you're into that thing, go to Vegas sports advantage man. They will help you. I think this past weekend. Uh they won 13 out of 15 games where they were they were betting on these guys know what they're doing. They look at all the data and analytics, they really help you. So go to Vegas sports advantage, putting my code huddle up and save 25%. So today's guest we have an author but it also has been an Emmy winning sports producer. Uh He was started with ESPN ESPN two, he was also started with the Golf channel back way back in 94 when I was drafted and you know when when the Golf channel started debuting in 95 you know, he was a big part of it, He was a big tournament producer. So he's seen all the ins and outs of the Golf channel since then and been through some incredible things. He's also an author, he's written several books uh and you know, he's he was kind enough to send me some. So the first one I think that he ever wrote was keith herschel and Cover Me Boys. I'm going in tales of the tube from a broadcast brat. Uh you know this one is great. Um and you know, he's written a ton of books. I think he comes his dad was in broadcasting, so he's got a lot of experience in it. So I can't wait to talk to him about that. And also this one, the newest one, he wrote Murphy Murphy and the case of the serious crisis as you can see. Um it's the first place winner. It's also a uh I think we got it upside down here on here, the book title, Radio, book talk radio club. So um right here joining us today, keith Hirschl and keith, how are you doing? It's great to see you, I know you live in Colorado Springs and and I hear you're also a big animal lover, I am all those things, it's great to be with you guess, and I'm really excited and honored to be included in uh in the great lineup of guests you had on huddle up, but I have to say I'm a little dismayed because I'm a lifelong 40 Niner fan and I went back and left and I think you were like five and two against the 49 ers in your career, so I'm gonna have to get over that, but you played pretty well against them, I always love playing against the 49 ers them and the Raiders. Uh oh, I don't know why, you know, just some teams that were just uh had a lot of enjoyment playing against, but man,...

...you talk about the 49 ers what a great franchise. Yeah, it's been a great, it's been great to be a fan. We have, you know, it's like everything else, there was some really, you know ups and downs, but the highs are really high and uh and then looking pretty good this year. But yeah, we love, you know, bust sarah and I, we have two dogs, two big dogs were big dog lovers. So we have a Bernese mountain dog and a pure doodle, which is a great Pyrenees poodle mix so they keep us busy. Yeah, they're great dogs, wow, we have three dogs. We have we have uh they call him a pocket pitbull. She just turned one today. Fiona this this about three months ago we rescued a dog from africa. She's a BSMG, she's about £20 and she's she's the meanest, toughest one of them all. And then we rescued a big old dog day bordeaux uh Sully. And uh so we brought sully into our house. So it's been a journey and they're all three completely different. They're all pretty much idiots and hard to manage them all. Yeah, well you might hear, I have to apologize in advance because you might hear our mark if the ups guy comes because that's their favorite person in the whole wide world. So, well yeah that the mailman, anybody who pulls up in the driveway and it's been uh it's been a real treat to have them. It's been a lot of work. We finally got a dog trainer to like you think you can do all this with three dogs and they're all completely different personalities and so she's a behavioralist and a dog trainer, so she really helps us with everything. Um And it's just been we've been pretty blessed to have her good. Yeah it is hard. So going back I think you're our first guest from reno Nevada. Okay, so tell me a little bit about growing up in Reno and your first memory of how you fell in love with sports because you know that's really about our show is everybody has this passion for sports no matter which way you go when you get older, but it all starts somewhere. So tell me about in reno where that started for you. Yeah. You know, it was a great place to grow up in the, in the early sixties, late fifties, early sixties because you know, it was it was just one of those towns where you know, nobody locks their doors, you could ride your bike anywhere. We had, you know, a group of friends and neighborhood pals that you know, you play football in the front yard wiffle ball and and I really, I would have to credit my sport. My love of sports probably goes back to my parents who were, who were sports fans. I mean some of my fondest memories are thinking about my mom, uh, who would listen to san Francisco giants broadcast Russ, Hodges and Lon simmons on the radio. Uh, you know, they taught us um, you know what sports meant in terms of development and how you could be part of a team, how you could succeed and you could fail, you know how to how to win gracefully, how to lose gracefully and and you know, I was lucky. I and I think those of us that grew up in that era, you know of, you know, there was, there was always something going on in terms of a little league game or a Pop Warner game you sports was you know, was huge in reno and everybody had a chance to participate and you know that love of sports carried on, you know, I had a dream of playing professional golf, I thought that you know, you played everything as a kid but you know, I kind of took the golf and played on the high school golf team and thought I was pretty darn good because I could shoot right around even par almost every time I teed it up and went to college on a partial golf scholarship up in Portland Oregon and started playing against guys like Pat fitzsimons and my mark Lie and might be Clampett and guys that can shoot 567 under every time they eat it up. And I realized pretty quick that that was not the future for me. Yeah, that would, that would be incredible though. I mean I've always tried to get my sons to play golf just because I said, look, yeah, you may not be great at it. Like you know, you may be great at it, but you have that swing forever, you can play golf forever and go out with your buddies and have such a good time. And so when you were going through that, did you play any other sports as well? Did we, did we play like I said, we played everything, you know, we were involved in little league and then Babe ruth baseball pop Warner football. I wrestled in high school. You know, again I'm dating myself but back then you had spring sports, you had winter sports yet fall sports so you could choose to play football or wrestle or you know, uh, in the spring it was golfer baseball. I was leaning toward golf. I also like I said, I wrestled, I played, you know, we were we were sports fans and we were both, I have two brothers, an older brother and a younger brother and we were all involved in sports and golf was really kind of the family like the family brought the family unit together because my mom and dad played so we would go out on the weekend and you know we play as a family and my camp growing up as a kid was my mom would drop us off at the golf course at eight o'clock in the morning and pick us up at 5 30 at night and we'd spend the entire day, they're picking the range...

...and practicing and doing whatever you know, the head pro asked us to do but at the same time taking lessons and learning how to play the game. So I was really, really lucky. You know, I mean uh it was such an easier time and we had a ton of fun and sports was, sports was a huge and is still in our family and my wife's family and you know, a huge part of our life. Yeah, no, that's great. Um you know, golf is just such a fun game to play and it's mentally taxing, it's, you know, you know, there's just so many things to say about it and I think learning it at a young age would have been so much fun, like I never played until I was almost in college. Yeah, you know, and really had no idea what I was doing. And so I was always excited to teach my sons early about the rules, the rules and the etiquette are some of the most important things about the game, not just swinging, which they thought it was. Yeah, absolutely, I mean, it's again, like you said, first of all, it's a game of a lifetime, I mean I'm 65 I'm still playing, you know, it's something that obviously your, your skill level in your talent level goes up and down, but you know, you can play, my dad played into his, you know, late seventies and so did my mom, so it is a game of a lifetime. And it also teaches you, you know, it teaches you life lessons, especially now things like the first t that's kind of what they're all about teaching the life lessons of golf, not just the athletic part of it, but you know what the rules mean, what etiquette is, how to treat your fellow competitor and all those things. And I was, you know, I my career in broadcast television spanned over 40 years, almost 40 years. And you know, I was involved in producing a number of sports, baseball, volleyball, football, field high. I mean, you name it, I was, you know, I probably sat in the chair and and did something in terms of those sports and and I always found that, you know, my career in golf was the most rewarding And you know, not to say that other athletes aren't great across the board, but almost to a person, professional golfers are among the, you know, the nicest group of people, the best group of people I've ever been around. So it's a great game and I, you know, I'm glad you got your son into it. My sons, I couldn't get them interested in it at all. And now my oldest who's almost 40 plays every day. He got a couple of years ago and now he loves it and plays every day. So it comes to it at different times and you know, play for the next 30, 40, 50 years, I hope. Yeah, I know that's what I enjoyed to, I don't really care what any of us, shoot, I just love being out there with them, it's special. So where did you end up going to college? I went to Lewis and Clark College in Portland for a couple of years um like I said, I went there to play golf and uh found the competition was a little little stiffer than was good for my game. And also as its want to do up there, I grew up, you know, growing up in Reno, the sunshine is about 350 days of the year, so it's beautiful and even when it snows in the morning and the afternoon the sun comes out kind of like colorado, which is really nice. But uh You know, I went up there and there was a stretch, felt like Noah, building an ark, there was a stretch where with this son didn't come out for 40 days. So, you know, I was feeling like I missed home, I missed, you know, I wasn't playing good golf, I wasn't competitive in terms of college golf. So then I went back to reno and finished up at the University of Nevada. Oh, nice. And so then what was your major, like, what did you decide to major in? Yeah, at Lewis and Clark, I was, I majored in creative writing, which was kind of a funny kind of circle circle back to now that I'm writing books, but when I went back to Nevada, they didn't have that as a major and I ended up majoring in journalism, which helped me in my television career, so, uh those were kind of the two things that I concentrated on. So you've had all the, you've had your first, you know, transition where you go from high school college, it's a big transition for everyone and then you're in the middle of college, you make another transition to back back home and you have to figure it out again. So then now you've graduated from Nevada. How do you get into television? Did you tell somebody or how did that happen for you? You know, it's funny, it's kind of that, that combination that, that recipe of luck and timing and connections and, you know, the willingness to take a chance here and there and, you know, all those things, you know, that mix of life that comes together and you find out, you know, you kind of have a calling. And um, I was extremely fortunate and my parents uh, started a Tv, my dad worked at a local affiliate tv station when we first moved to Reno when I was, you know, two years old. And then he, at the time there were only, this was the late fifties, there were only two TV stations in Reno, there was an NBC affiliate and CBS affiliate and my dad...

...went to manage the CBS affiliate. And then in the sixties abc came along and my folks got a group of investors together and started the AbC affiliate in Reno Nevada. So, um, I grew up around it. I mean part of my, you know, part of my growing up was as my parents both went off to go run this Tv station. My brothers and I were tasked with staying home and watching channel two to make sure that and write down all the commercials that aired so that we could go back and checked against the, you know what they had in the log and what they could do. But I grew up around the Tv station, I love going there, I love the people. Um and then when I went away to college, you know, I kind of didn't think about it. And when I came back to Reno we had a minor league hockey team in Reno called the Reno Aces and one night I was there with a couple of friends at the game and the sports director, a great guy named joe Pickett had showed up to with his film camera to record some highlights of the Reno Aces game. And so I went down to say I have known him from hanging around the station. I went down to say hello and he was kind of griping and moaning about having to do you come here and shoot these highlights and he'd really rather be out having a beer with, you know the news director and I'll shoot the highlights, Give me the camera, I'll shoot the highlights and he's like he couldn't have given me that camera fast enough. So all of a sudden, you know, kind of thanks to his goodwill and maybe a little bit of his laziness. Uh you know, I started volunteering really to go out and do the high school football game highlights or go interview this coach or that coach or, and it just kind of, you know, snowballed into uh into a nice little little career in television, I started out on the air doing sports um when there was also a show called PM magazine back in the early eighties that I hosted, but realized pretty quickly that I didn't like being in front of the camera, I much preferred being behind the scenes and writing the stories and putting together the uh you know, all the, all the things, so um I got off the air and went behind the scenes and became a producer and a director, so you know, like I said, it was luck, it was being in the right place at the right time, but it was also, you know, you got, you like to think you had a little bit of skill because you wouldn't have stuck if you didn't so well, you were pretty early with ESPN as well, right? Yeah, you know, it was uh ESPN came along and you know, it was one of those things, is that as a person in sports tv, that was like, oh my gosh, I want to work for ESPN and you know, I didn't quite get there initially, but I ended up working for one of the most brilliant tv producers of all time, A guy named Don Ohlmeyer who had a production company in Los Angeles and I tell a bunch of these stories and cover me boys, I'm going in, but I ended up in L. A. On his team and they produced all the gulf for ESPN all the PGA tour Golf, the LPGA Tour Golf and the champion story. So I got involved in, I became a part of that team and uh I was working for Don and his production company for about a year and he sold Omar communications to ESPN. So that's how I became an employee of ESPN because it bought Dons company and a couple of years later I was trying to I came in another crossroads, you know, in life when you're married too young kids trying to make the living in los Angeles California and realizing that the money isn't quite adding up. So I went after a bit of a raise and they said no and but they said, you know what, we just started this television network, the second network in bristol ESPN two, and how would you feel like moving, how would you feel about moving to bristol and and being one of the producers on ESPN two and helping us launch that network. So I jumped at that chance and and went out to, went out to Connecticut and and roam the halls of bristol Connecticut for about nine months before the Golf channel came to Collins. So, wow. So now did you commute there? Did you take your whole family with you? We took the whole family. That was, you know, I look back on now and I was like, you know, my wife at the time, um was, you know, pretty much a ST, you know, it's like, here we go, we're going to, you know, we're in L. A. But we're going to move, you know, the whole family had a one year old and a three year old and we're going to move to to Connecticut. Um, luckily she had family in Connecticut. So she was all for that nine months later, when Golf Channel offered me the job, she was a little less excited about moving to Orlando with the kids. But so in the, you know, in the span of 10 months I moved, I moved the family from Los Angeles to Connecticut to Orlando florida. And uh, Wow, I would like my career 15 years...

...right, moving all over the place. Yeah, that is hard on our wives when, when they have to take our Children. You know, I mean, some of my best memories were when we were on the car and traveling all over the country together, but uh, when, when you're a parent and you're by yourself and we had three little ones. It's a tough, it's a tough deal. Yeah. Well, you know, and, and, and, and the career that I had, especially with Golf Channel, you know, I was the live turn, I was the first, I think I was one of the 1st 40 people hired a golf channel in october of 94 we launched in january of 95 my job was to produce all our live tournaments, So that was 35, somewhere between 30 and 35 weeks a year that I was on the road, I was gone, and it was a you know, I mean, you're gone for a week, I mean, you travel on Tuesday, set up, do the tournament through thursday, through sunday, come home your home monday, just to do laundry and then get back on an airplane on Tuesday, so um it broke our marriage, I mean, you know, and I talked about that in the book to and because that's what it's tough, you know, I mean, you have two little guys and I'm pursuing the career that I loved, so I was selfish in that regard a little bit, but at the same time, you know, you leave Mhm frozen, uh we lost you there for a second, keith, no worries, uh you can just continue, okay, you know, it's just it's it's you know, sadly or what, it's just part of life and um you know, my wife, my ex wife was, you know, a wonderful mother, we have, you know, two great kids together and you know, she did a wonderful job raising them while I was off pursuing my dream and you know living the you know the tv life and uh so it's you look back on it and again like I said I I don't I wouldn't have done any I wouldn't have done anything differently Right now. I hear you, you know my wife I had a kind of similar career where I was going all the time and you have to spend a lot of time to be good at what you're doing in that field uh in the facility, you're not home a lot. So my wife we've been lucky, we've got through therapy, we've done those things to try and stay together. We've done it for 26 years, so Been together 31 so we've we've been through a lot of that and it's still struggle like it's what you said it's it's it's it's not always easy and you know especially when kids in the mix, I mean my daughter's dog is not feeling well, she's down in D. C. And she's going on vacation. So I have to drive to D. C. Tomorrow and pick up her dog, bringing you do what you gotta do right, you guys that's awesome, it never stops. So so then you're in you're in with the Golf channel now what was the first tournament that that you produced? So we we uh it's funny we had a couple of test tournaments. So we like I said we um we, I was hired in, in october of 1994 we were going to launch in january of 1995 and that first, the week of launch, we actually had an LPGA tournament at Disney called the HealthSouth Inaugural, so we were going to be, you know, kind of one of the mainstays, the anchors of our first week of launch, there was a european tour event um before us and then our LPGA event, but we were, it was, I mean it's crazy because it was kind of like the wild, wild West, I mean, you know, there was this group of 100 100 or so people that converged on Orlando florida and any time between like august of 1994 and january of 1995 and we were all thrown together to try and put, you know, a 24 hour television golf television network on the air, so there were a lot of people that have never worked together, we had a lot of people that were, you know, getting to know each other and luckily the folks down there in Orlando bob greenway and Gary Stevenson and, and mike Whalen who was really kind of the architect of the production, Yeah, I had faith in our team because the director that was hired along with me to produce was a guy that had directed a number of golf events for ESPN as well, so we kind of knew what we were doing and we put together and they luckily for me anyway, and for the way things turned out, they kind of told em it and myself, you know, you guys know what you're doing, you go do it, and because we got a lot of, you know, we got 100 other things to worry about back here in Orlando, so they sent us off on the road to produce golf tournaments. But that first event was an LPGA event that Pat Bradley one, she's in the Hall of Fame. And uh, so that kind of got us off and running and, you know, through the years we were able to televise, you know, some great PGA tour events, some great in those early years, you know, Tiger turned pro...

...in 96 we saw him a handful of times playing in tournaments that we broadcast. I was this close to being the producer for Tigers first PGA tour win. Uh it was at what is now the john Deere classic. Yeah, he played and uh had the lead going into the final day and on the fourth or fifth hole of that sunday he made a triple bogey and lost the lead and a guy named Ed Fiori beat him and so we were, we didn't get to produce Tigers first when that happened in Vegas later that year when my friends and the guys I used to work with that ESPN got to produce the Vegas tournament that Tiger went in a playoff over paint Stewart and then the next week he came to Orlando, another event that we were producing and he won, so I was there for Tiger second win and then you know the rest is history. We never saw him again because he stopped playing and events that we were televising. So it was great while he, you know, he was he was he couldn't have been a nicer guy in that in that first year. I mean he always showed up for interviews, he was always there. If we asked him to do something, he'd do it. And um I look back on that time and think how lucky I am that uh you know the greatness that is Tiger Woods, we were there for a bit of it that first year. So who did you say beat him the first time? Ed Fiori, Ed Fiori, Yeah, he was kind of a journeyman pro, He was a journeyman pro that had this funny grip he had, you know, like he really grip the club differently and in fact his nickname was the grip uh and he held off Tiger that day and it was pretty, it was, it was pretty, it's what I'm saying, like how many times you think Ed Fiore has been sitting somewhere in the bar. I'm the guy that beat Tiger Woods is right, right, like like just his claim to fame. He's talking about it all the time. So when you're producing, you're almost like the quarterback of the team because your almost telling, you know, you're telling everybody what to do, you're calling the plays, you're doing this, you're doing that. So tell us a little bit like how your sports experience growing up and being part of teams helped you when you became a producer. It's critical. I mean, the teamwork because um you know, producing a golf tournament is really unlike any other sport. And, you know, I don't say that because I did it, I say it because it's true, you know, and the way we just described it was, you know, unlike most stick and ball sports, you know, most stick and ball sports, there's there's one field, one offense, one defense, you know, one, you know, they're calling tv timeouts, there's, you know, natural stoppages in play, whereas in golf there's 18 fields of play, there's 100 at times 156 players uh and they're all playing offense all the time and there's no tv time out. So, you know, you can't, the producer in golf um is really is really the quarterback because that's the person that decides what shot is going to be shown when um and then it's my job to say, okay, we're gonna show Tiger Woods for Birdie of 13, then we're going to show Payne Stewart, second shot of 14 and then we're gonna come back for Tiger Woods tee shot at 14 and I communicate that to the director and then the director's job is to talk to the camera man, he tells, so he's got a number of cameras set up on that 13th green. So he decides how to show paint the picture of the story that I'm trying to tell. And then I also talked to the announcers. So um, I'm telling the announcers where we're going and all they're seeing is there's a couple guys on the ground on the golf course and a couple of guys and towers or boosts and all they're seeing is a tv monitor in front of them. So there's this tremendous and I'm sure you felt that way playing quarterback in the league. Um, there's a tremendous amount of trust that has to happen that your receiver is going to be at the point where you're intending to throw the ball, receivers got to trust the fact that you're going to throw the ball to the spot where he's going to be well, it's the same kind of the same thing With Gulf that announcer has to trust the fact that when I tell him we're going to tigers birdie at 13, that that's where we're going because he's going to say it and if I had at the last second to go somewhere else that hangs him out to dry. So no, I hear you talking to a bunch of people at the same time, you're also listening to a million people at the same time. It's I love when people say golf watching golf on Tv is boring because inside the T. V. Truck it's anything about boring. Well I liken it to a football game right? You got your first quarter where your golfers like every thursday friday and then there's the cut but you gotta kind of film every you're on tv for how many hours right? So you don't really at the end in the fourth quarter when it gets exciting and you know the leaders are every day, it's probably a little...

...easier to film that. Then in the beginning you're just trying to figure out who am I gonna shoot. So how did you figure that out? Well you kind of go in with a plan. It's always, you know what was, what was mike, Tyson's famous line, everybody's got a plan until you get hit in the mouth or whatever. But um you have a plan because the pairings, the groupings come out on Wednesday and you're on the air on thursday like say you're every time might be from 1 to 4 from 2 to 5 or from noon to five. And with those early days of the golf channel we kind of had a motto. We were lucky enough that we didn't have a 60 minutes to have to go to or any kind of show any other network show through live golf kind of drove the train. So there were times when we were on the air for 68, 10 hours and, and we'd sit through rain delays, like we wouldn't go away, we'd sit there and do interviews, but you kind of have a plan. So you have a grouping, say it's, you know, there's two or three groups that are going to be in your tv window and you build your kind of build a plan around those guys. And the tour was nice enough to kind of make sure that the bigger name players were playing in the tv window or the guys that, you know, you kind of figure we're gonna have a chance to win the tournament even though it was thursday or friday. Um, so then you go in there with that plan and then all of a sudden those guys play terrible and somebody on the other side of the golf courses lighten it up. So you gotta rearrange, shift the cameras, you know, your whole plan goes out the window. But um, you try and do that and throughout the course of my 18 years of golf channel, the, the technology in broadcasting and sports television in television in general, but especially in sports television is, you know, having, you know, I'm sure you still watch NFL games and are amazed by what they do now with, with, with things, but in golf it was really when I first started, um, and I hate to go too much into the weeds. But You know you can only like I said there are a bunch of guys playing at the same time and then wave in the afternoon waiver when you're on the air, there could be 70 guys playing golf. So you can only show obviously one of them at a time, right? So and one of them live at a time. And when I first started we had four video tape machines that would record the gulf. So when the producer, a guy named Andy Young who was my mentor was showing Gus Farhat on the 12th green putting for birdie, it was my job to find four other shots that I thought Andy might and he would tell me to say record this, record that record this. So he could put those, you know that piece of that puzzle back together, showing the tape shots around the live shots. And this was I got a real right here, how many how many cameras were on? Of course it's actual videotape. So I mean this is on a machine and it was on a machine recording golf shots just you know, and but the technology was such that you had to record it. So you push play and record. We had a tape tape operator, he pushed play and record record Gus Frerotte second shot at 12. That would last anywhere between 12 and 30 seconds depending on what happened. You'd give a little bit of pad at the end of it and then have to stop the machine, rewind the machine and queue it up and then for you have it get ready for playback so all this stuff was going on and as technology breast now this has gone the way of digital recording devices that can record and play back up to six things at once so there's no more you know letting the shot go through, stopping it, rewinding it for playback now, it's just it can play and record at the same time so it made it easier or harder. My gosh it's so much easier you know because you never have to wait, you know the producer now doesn't have to wait for that other shot to finish too, you know screw up his timing or figure out where he's going to go next because it's always there ready to go and you have things like ball tracer now and you have you know how fast your swing was so there's a lot that the people can talk about besides just watching them hit. Yeah absolutely and that's the other part of technology that's changed that in the cameras Again, I feel I feel like I'm the guy that said when I went you know I went to school, I walked uphill you know through the snow in both ways but you know we are cameraman, we used to lay up to 100,000 ft of cable on the golf course and our camera guys would have sections of cable. So there will be a cable at the T. You'd run that to the fairway. There'd be another cable from the fairway to the green. So our camera guys that were out walking with the groups would plug in at the T. Shoot the shot unplugged, getting a...

...card go up to the fairway, beat the players get to their spot in the fairway, plug in. So then we could see the shot again. And what's called radio frequency technology, R. F. Technology came 20 years ago. Whereas all of a sudden if a camera there was a receiver and a transmitter transmitter on the camera receiver somewhere high up around the golf course. And if that camera could see that seaver you could get a picture. So all of a sudden now you could get a picture from anywhere on the golf course without having to plug in and unplug cables. So that was technology that really helped golf. And but the the tracer technology and the ball speed we used it was my brilliant idea at one point to get the baseball jugs gun. Yeah. And we, I thought I wonder because we were at a tournament one time and we pulled into the compound and there was a California highway patrolman there with his radar gun. And I was like, well he measures the speed of the car. You know coming at him. I wonder if we could use something like that to measure the speed of the golf ball going away. So I called the people of jugs and they sent us a couple of guns and it turned out that it actually worked. We could measure the ball speed when the guy teed off. Yeah. Track man right now. It sounds like, yeah, there's the precursor to track where you go with a volunteer sitting behind the D box, where the jugs gotten pointed at all. You should have just had a state like that would be like the state troopers day off coming up and like, hey we'll let you come on the course where your uniform, you can measure all the speed. Yeah, yeah, that's a good idea. He would have been good at it because he was used to work in the dark thing. Right. Exactly, exactly. Hey everyone, thank you for listening. We're gonna take a quick commercial break. We're talking with author, uh Emmy winning producer, keith, herschel in, we'll be right back uh uh huh. Hey, head off with gusts listeners manscaped. They sent me uh they hooked me up with a bunch of tools and formulations for their package 3.0 Kit. Uh so you know, I want to show you guys what's in the perfect package, right? We all think we got a perfect package but they sent me the perfect package three point okay. And I want to show you what they sent me. So it was crazy. It came in this great box, uh, you know, and you can see what it says. They will thank you because they sent us this awesome trimmer. They sent us, uh, you know, stuff that makes you smell better. And then, you know, they sent me this great, uh, some boxers, you what you get right, protect them. And then, uh, you know, they sent me this cool it sack, I guess you want to call it to store all your stuff in. So, uh, it's been great. Manscaped sent me a bunch of product. Um, you know, and you know, you can see it all on here. Uh, you know, if you can go to Manscaped dot com and put in the code, uh, Gus Frerotte, that's G U S F R E R O T T E. Get 20% off and free shipping when you use that code. But you can get a kit, you can get individual items like, uh, this way. Cool rumor that has a little led light, um, ceramic. These things come apart. They're waterproof. You can do a lot with them. So, you know, man scape is great. You know, it's funny money. I remember when I was playing with the Denver broncos and I'm not going to mention any names, but there was a gentleman who was playing on our team. And uh, you know, if you ever hears the story, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about, but he brought his own clippers in one time and he used to trim his beard up his goatee and everything and he had him there for about two or three weeks and he goes in around the corner, he walks in and there's a person, another player that is actually manscaping with his beard trimmer. So you know, one of the things is you don't want to use the same trimmer down there that you use up here. So uh he kind of freaked out a little bit and he said, hey, how long have you been using that tool there? And he said, well, showed up here about three weeks ago and I've been using it ever since. So you know, there is a lesson learned that, you know, don't leave things out and probably, uh, if it would have just said Manscaped on it, uh we wouldn't have had that issue, but it's probably one of the funniest, uh, taking care of your ball stories I've ever heard or been around in the locker room in the NFL. So, uh, it's a great story. Um, but you know, I always said there was no way to know, there's no name on it and the guy was just using it and another guy was using, it was not good,...

...but it's a heck of a funny story. So one of the best I've ever heard in my 15 years playing in the league, um, but you know, there's so many great things about Manscaped what they're doing, uh, because guys, you got to take care of yourself even though I got great hair, um, and getting older, but you still have to maintain some sort of grooming, right? And so, uh, you know, we all work out for me. I like working in my yard doing those things now that I'm retired, get a little sweat on and everything. You want to smell good. You know, you got to take care of yourself, They've got some great products, uh, you know, this one, uh, a little uh, ball deodorant, we'll need that here and there. Um, after, you know, working the yard, taking a hike, doing a walk, whatever you do. Um, it's a great thing. But there's so many great products. Um, I want to thank Manscaped for sending them to me. Um, uh, the lawnmower 3.0. Obviously you can use it anywhere in your body, but I'm sure you guys have all seen the commercials, But this is one just letting you know that the lawnmower 3.0, comes with the perfect kit. You can buy the lawnmower by itself by all these products individually. They even sent me this wonderful shirt. You can see the back, your balls will thank you and then here's the front. So it's an awesome shirt to have a great gear and you know what? Sometimes you can just sit back, take care of your balls a little bit and and and read the paper. So Manscaped even has their own daily news, so which is great. So don't forget that you can go to the code Gus Frerotte and that's G. U. S. F. R. E. R. O. T. T. E. Uh And you can save 20% on any products, the complete the perfect uh package gift set and uh you know, you can save 20% and get free shipping, so use the code just for a G. U. S. F. R. E. R. O. T. T. E. Hey everybody spells my name wrong, they even spelled wrong in the back of my pro bowl jersey. So you know, I gotta I gotta help you guys out. So don't forget how important it is that you use these products, take care of yourself down below and have some fun, right? There's nothing closer to you than your little buddies. So use the lawnmower. Uh use the code Gus Frerotte, save 20% and get free shipping and uh order some Great Manscaped products. Uh Mhm. Do you want everyone welcome back to huddle up with Gus I'm your host. Gus Frerotte. I want to thank everyone for joining us again. We're talking with keith herschel an author and uh you know, keith uh we got a question in our email from a mr Ray Wishner out of Bethesda Maryland. And so he had a question actually there's two questions for you. he first he asked how has the game of golf change since keith was covering the Golf channel? Uh you know, it's I think that like anything else um in our world today, the sports world today, that you know, one of the, one of the major changes is that the athletes are bigger, stronger, better, um and you know, you can relate to that, watching the national football League, I mean you wouldn't have dreamed of, you know, guys hitting the ball as far as as they hit it now, or you know, being as proficient as they are, there were great players, you know, they were great players, obviously there have been throughout the course of golf history um there were long drivers, you know, john daly comes to mind, I mean, Jack Nicholas and his day was very long, um but you know, that they were also, you know, and I don't mean any, I don't mean to disparage anybody, but they were also smokers and drinkers and you know, I mean, it was, you know, it just was life, you know, they were tremendous athletes, but they also knew how to have a good time and you know, when that I was, we were around, you know, in the early days when the first um you know, exercise van or the band came out on tour and the PGA Tour guys like all excited about it, and when we go to a Champion's Tour event, the guys were like, why would I spend any time in that. Exactly. So the main thing is that just the athletes are so much just so much better and um you know, which is great, it's great for golf, it's great for any sport and it's great for...

...us fans to watch. So, I mean, you have a guy like D Shambo who's hitting it, you know, 500 yards, it's great and it's not a long drive, You know, a guy who has a 54" driver, you know, it's just, he's just built differently and just technology and everything is letting him drive it further. Yeah, and he's taken that and that's not good enough for him. He wants to say, well I want to get it to 402 yards or I want to get it before the last tournament did it. Yeah, that's crazy. He fell apart in the second shows you that golf is a mental game, like, you know, and I, you know, it's very hard and you gotta be accurate and you can't change your swing in the middle of around all these things happen. It's crazy. I love people that I love people that, you know, you talk to and yeah, you run into and you're in the gulf business and you know, do you play? I asked, you know, do you play? And they say, oh yeah, but I'm not any good and I'm like, well nobody is any good, don't worry, you know, I just played Oakmont. I I turned 50 and I played Oakmont. I lived two doors down from it. And so my buddy and I have the same um we have the same birthday, exactly were same age. Uh he used to be the ceo of any p, you know, have any PS So kevin rap, Yeah, kevin Rabbit's name. So kevin, we have the same birthday, invited me to play golf over there and I was doing real, I was doing okay. I mean we're playing the blues and you know, I'm just having fun where it's a bunch of us out there and then but 16, 17 and 18 just kicked my butt. I'm like, I couldn't hit a draft straight. I was like, what is going on? But you know, I saved it with a par in 18. But uh man, I was hard, that one on the back, that's one of the hardest golf courses in the world. Yeah, so much shot a 41 on the front, which wasn't that, but you know those, those greens are so hard to put on every other green because they have the U. S. Open the amateur this week. So the amateurs of this and the open was there, What a couple of years ago? Yeah, 18, 17 or 18 when Dustin johnson Columbia. Yeah. And you know, the thing is, is that they were getting the greens ready. So all the other courses around here, the greens aren't that fast and you go there and it just, you can't even judge the speed when you don't play on them like that. You know what I mean? Yeah, it was difficult. All right. So the second question from Ray out of Bethesda is in your opinion, who is the top golfer in the world today and why? Oh, jeez, really a opinion? Uh, yeah, you know, gosh, there are so many great players. Um, you know, I mean, I guess you would, you can't go too far without mentioning john rahm's name. I mean the guy is just, he's come up big Dustin johnson is still a great player. He tends to be a little less consistent maybe than rahm these days. But um, and you know, I guess all those guys that are coming up like Colin moore cow, it was awesome to watch Xander softly when the gold medal uh, in Tokyo, that was an amazing, amazing week for golf. So if, if you put, you know, if you put a gun to my head and said, who's the number one player in the world right now? I would probably say john wrong, I love watching john round play. You know, because it looks like his body looks like mine kind of, you know what I mean? He's not this little skinny dude out there, just, you know, he's like a big solid dude play, uh huh. He looks like just no offense anybody else playing, but he looks like a normal guy playing, You know what I mean? Like I would go to any course here in Pittsburgh and I'd see john somebody who looks like Jon rahm playing out, especially there's, there's a lot of john daly is here in Pittsburgh, but you know, we'll leave that one out, I love Jon rahm, a lot of fun to watch. So now you're, you're producing all these um golf channel, you know, all these tournaments and everything. So tell me like now your way into it, you've been at the Golf Channel for how long I was there for 18 years, I left in 2013, so I was there for 18 years. So you've done all these 2013, what says, Okay, now it's time to move on and do something else or retire, what do you do? Well, um, that's kind of a and again, it's a bit of a long and winding road as as Paul McCartney would say, but I am, we lost my parents, my dad died in 22007 and my mom a little a little more than a year later, thanks. And you know, we were my wife, my current wife, Sarah and I were over, you know, we were doing what, what you do when your, when your parents pass away, we we were over uh going through their stuff and figuring out, you know, what was there to keep, what was there and not to keep what, you know, what you were going to do and we came across...

...a couple of boxes in the closet that had, you know, all this memorabilia basically from my dad and mom, my dad and mom's career and my dad's career in tv and you know, letters from presidents of television networks and presidents of the United States and and his, you know, Nevada Broadcasting Hall of Fame, big, it was like this big marble thing that when he was inducted into Nevada Broadcasting Hall of Fame and Um you know that he was the head of the broadcasting committee of the 1960s when early Squaw Valley and all these things and my wife looking and you know, she was unfortunately one of my greatest regrets is that she didn't get a chance to get to really know my parents as well as I would have hoped she would have. But um she looked at me and she said, you know, don't let this be your kids when you're gone going through a box and saying, oh my God dad won an Emmy and dad helped start to television networks and he knew Tiger Woods and he did this, that and the other thing he she said, start writing down some of the stories about your career um in a journal and you know, so you can leave it for them. So they'll have something to, you know, to kind of look back and see what you did, and so I started doing that, and I got about a third of the way into it and telling a bunch of these stories and I thought, you know, This could be a book. So, you know, then I approached a little bit differently and started writing it like it was a book and that I finished that in 2013. Um we published it And uh there were some things in there that the golf channel, I was at the time working freelance for golf channel, doing 10 or 12 events a year. Um you know, that that whole dynamic changed when when Comcast and NBC took over it as things do, you know, life changes and so they were, they weren't real happy with some of the things in the book and we kind of decided to part ways and when that happened, I, you know, I was a little, I was a little devastated, but at the same time I realized it was probably, you know, it was it was the right time. So, um, you know, we published the book and, and uh it got, you know, pretty good response and people love the stories and, you know, they love them behind the scenes stuff, you know, especially with the start, I got networks, I mean, ESPN two, I was lucky enough to work with, you know, Stuart scott and Suzy kolber when they were starting out any, that was one of his first producers? And there was, there was a long time when people didn't at ESPN didn't think Kenny Mayne was going to make it as a broadcaster and you know, he hung in there and got better and better and so that was, that was a ton of fun, you know, helping start ESPN two and then moving on to the Golf channel where, you know, everybody in the world told me I was out of my mind to leave ESPN and go work for a start up 24 7 Golf Network, you know, and nobody in the world thought that thing was going to succeed and um you know, we, we turned the world on its ear and and made the Golf channel work. And so there's a bunch of stories about those early days and cover me Boys. I'm going in and, and then I really, you know, kind of being in semi retirement um I also realized that I enjoyed writing the process of writing that book so much that I said, well I'm gonna try another one and this time I'm going to go to go to fiction and write a mystery. So so we wrote Big flies and it kind of has, you know, has that's a big cry, like where where do you get the inspiration? Like so big flies, where do you get that thought probably it's just something you always wanted to write or is it just like a story that you've heard? Like how how do you get to that point where you say okay this is fiction but this is the story I want to right? Yeah, that's a good question. Um And I think for me you know every every writer is different. But for me there's in all five of the books I've written, we just we just sent them the latest one to the publisher called Some girl. But in all five of the books I've written there is there is some personal experience inside that I've taken obviously that cover me by some I'm going in is actual stories that actually happened. The other book have a little nugget of a personal experience that happened to me that I've kind of you know that seed has grown into a into a make believe story. Um because I was like I said I grew up in reno and I was there. My dad's tv station reporters were at the airport in 1971 when db cooper hijacked the plane in Seattle and that plane that he was supposed to be on was landing in reno, It landed, he wasn't on it because he had jumped out of the plane with $200,000 somewhere over the Pacific Northwest and nobody ever nobody ever found him again. So when I...

...was thinking about writing a mystery. I thought what if you know a young man ah comes to realize after his father passes away that his dad was D. B. Cooper. So big flies is that story of this guy? And the title comes from a balzac quote that you know, laws are like spider webs. You know, the little the the little flies get caught and big flies escape or something like that. So, so we wrote Big Yeah, came from that. So then do you know somebody named Murphy, Murphy? I do not, but and and the folks that I was yelling at for my 18 years of golf channel, I actually didn't yell at him for all 18 years, but the announcers who were on our team, um you know, I had, I had a number of Pet peeves as a producer, as you can imagine one of them, you know, don't ever be perfect, like it's a perfect shot. The only perfect shot is one of the goes in the hole. So you know, it's not that drives me crazy when an answer is, you know, the guy had a tee shot, oh, that's perfect. It's like it's perfectly placed or it's in a perfect position, but it's not perfect and you know, little little things that nagged at me and one of them was redundancies, you know, and so um as I was thinking of a mystery, I thought, you know what, I want to have a little fun, I want to have a little bit of fun with a book. So I won't come up with that with that a story that to see how many redundant phrases I can put between the covers. So, you know, phrases like unexpected surprise are completely filled or free gift. You know, the things that people say all the time that you're like, redundant, you know, so, and and who better to be the detective than Murphy Murphy. So, you know, he he works for the department of Redundancy department at the local cops stop. And he's also a mystery that involves a band called serious crisis because that's also redundant. So, yeah, no, that's awesome. That's awesome. So it's just great that you get to go through these, right? And, and, and because, you know, people have asked me like, you should tell your story, you should write your story, you know, but I don't have that ability To put it down. I don't have the notes. Like, there's so many stories I remember, I wish I would have taken notes from my story, you know, with all the seven teams and the 15 years of playing everything that's happened to me. Um if that would have happened all to my wife, which kind of did, she could write, right? She's the writer, like everything I write, I say, hey, you fix this for me, right? Kind of how I do it. Um, but it's just great that you got, you had this incredible career in sports in producing sports and being out there and then you get to take a turn and do something you probably really love to do. Yeah, it's been amazing, I mean that kind of whole, reinventing yourself really does happen and uh you know, I've been incredibly fortunate that you know, I've had this, this, I had this wonderful career in television and now I'm able to do something that I really enjoy doing and uh you know, um my family and my wife, my kids are really supportive and and you know, you you don't, I never, you know, again, I never started out thinking that I was going to write a book, you know, just kind of happened and then when I think kind of though I realized that even in my entire career in television and you know, even in college, I was a journalism major at the University of Data, so that was writing stories, it was writing news copy, you know, when I started to create, you were creative writing and muslim clark. So those are short stories, so, and then when I started my career in television, it was my job to write the what we call teases, which 30 to 45 seconds of copy that brought the broadcast on the air, you know, Annika Sorenstam going for win number 72 and uh of those kinds of you had, you had the right to tweet. Exactly, exactly, right. And you know, some of the best in the business, read my words or vin Scully and, and Brent Musburger, and you know, and I'd write features and I'd write little like we do these 32nd things going to commercial, tell him a little wait, I got stopped. So do those guys ever write their own beginnings, or is it always the producer director that it was, it depends on, it would depend on the announcer. Um you know, vince, in my experience, I did a handful of skins games with vin Scully and I wrote all the copy, um I did a couple of tournaments with Brent Musburger, I wrote the copy for that to which he changed, which was never, I never had a...

...problem with, I mean, that was um and then there were guys like Grant Boone and Rich Lerner, um guys that I work with the Golf channel, that that right there own that write their own stuff, so it just depends on, you know, it will kind of sit back and talk about maybe in an idea or I'd write something and Rich would write something and then we go back and forth. But, you know, for a lot of my career, especially at ESPN and ESPN golf, um I wrote all the copy for most of my Golf channel, um I wrote all that, so I realized it's like I've been writing, you know, I've been writing 40 years, I mean, you know, so maybe I can write a book, the hardest part with writing fiction is Um trying to remember what you said on page one because on page 200, it has to be that, you know, it has to make sense. It has to be the same thing. It's not just like this happened, then this happened, then this happened. So right, right. All has to make sense going along. So who is the person? Okay. You've written your book you got your, your preliminary, you know, your script done for it. Who who do you give it to to read first? Um, well again, I've been, I have to, to folks in my life that I count as uh, tremendous confidence and, and people that are really important to me. My youngest son who uh was a creative writing, um, and music major at DePaul. He is my first line of defense. So whatever I write and I'll be very honest with you, your kids are super on. Exactly, right. And so I'll send him, I'll send him chapters. I'll send him, you know, here, what do you do this? And then he'll be my first, my first line of defense. I'm pretty good with, you know, with grammar and with those kinds of things. I'm terrible upon information. I'm terrible at making sure that, you know, kind of that the, that the theme stays consistent throughout the whole thing. Uh, the other one is my mother in law who has read everything I've written and is another one that is brutally honest. Um, in fact with Cover Me Boys. Um, I would take her chapters and stories and basically she would be like, you know, my english teacher in fifth grade, like this big red line right through everything. You can't, you can't tell this story. You know, you will burn every bridge, you know that you've ever, if you ever want to, you know, see the light of day in terms of, you know, friends in television again, you've got to not just like put that. I'm sure this was cathartic. I'm sure it felt good to write it. But now put it in the trash can you can't, you know, you can't tell. So there those are the two. And then I got to say the team at Beacon Publishing Group has been tremendous. So they're kind of my last line of defense once it gets through jake and and my mother in law, then the folks that Beacon taken and really put the fine fine tune it and put the finishing touches on it. So if you had to tell somebody who always wanted to write or didn't know they wanted to write, but had that part side of them, like for me that's not a side of what I want to do. Yeah, maybe. But how would you give advice to somebody who wants to do that or wants to start, I guess, you know, it's hard to just, I feel self conscious and kind of like saying, you know, it kind of here's what you should do because everybody is different and and experiences are different for everybody, but for me, I mean, I would just say just right, um you know, you don't know whether you can or can't until you try and um you know, if you've got some stories in your head and you think that they're, you know, worthy of putting pen to paper, then just do it. And the other thing I would say is read, um I'm a voracious reader. I love, I love, you know, guys like Michael Connelly and and Harlan Coben and that's kind of what I like to read. Um nelson de mille, you know, occasionally read a nonfiction, but I mostly like mysteries and so you get like, you get a sense of how to tell a story by reading some of the great writers who write stories. So that's helped me a tremendous amount. You know, I would just say just do it and then have somebody that you can trust read it Well. And I think writing today is a lot different, right? If you think about our the way we are today with our phones and tick tock and in instagram and everything that's quick with our social media is that that you have to read To be able to learn how to tell a story, right? Because it can't be done in a 32nd paragraph or whatever, right? So, I I think you're exactly spot on with that. Yeah. And I write everything down. I mean my first, my processes, everything gets written on a mole skin tablet with, you know, with the pen, I write handwrite everything...

...and then I take that over to my computer. So that's kind of my first edit, I write it and then when I take it over to my computer, that's when I kind of make the first set of changes. And but everything I've written is tend to paper, can you read your own handwriting? Like my handwriting is terrible. I have I still have bad thoughts of the nuns that used to hit me with their yardstick when I had terrible writing, right? I was outside the lines. I can barely read it. Like, luckily funny because when I first started writing, I had a piece of advice somebody gave me was take a pen and a pad of paper to bed because sometimes you'll have like these things in the middle of the night, you'll wake up with an idea and you can just reach over in the United Stand and and jot it down. I did that for about three nights because I'd wake up in the morning and I I couldn't read. I had no idea what I had written down. It was just, it was just scribbles like hieroglyphics. So scribblings of a madman, right? Yeah. Look at somebody, you know, like for big flies or the Flower Girl Murder and try and read a couple of chapters in my my handwriting. And I'm like, how did I ever get this transport to a computer? Great, well, A I and computers are very smart, you know, they can read everything now. They can read everything. So before we go here, keith tell our all of our fans and our listeners how they can find your books and a little bit more about Murphy Murphy before we go. Yeah, the books on amazon, you know, just you can google or put a little bar keith herschel and author, they'll all come up also at keith Hirschl and one word A I T H H I R S H L A N D dot com. They're all there and at Beacon Publishing group dot com. And thanks for letting me do that. But you know, Murphy, Murphy was a ton of fun too. Right? I mean, yeah, I set out with that. And it was funny because um when Beacon published Cover Me Boys, I'm going in um I was over the moon that you know, because I had self published, you know the other two books and and Beacon came in and they had red Cover Me Boys and they said we want to you know, we want to take you under our wing and we want to we want to re release Cover Me Boys, I'm going in. So we did that. And um when I was writing Murphy Murphy, I spoke to bobby Collins who's my my lead guy at Beacon and I said you know, is this something that you guys would be interested in? And you know, he kind of laughed, he said it sounds really fun and sure send it along to us because you never know, I mean I'm not you know, I'm not Stephen King, I'm not like, you know, the publisher is not like waiting with bated breath for my next book. So you know, you don't know if there if it's going to be something that they like or something that they didn't like and You know, I really set out with Murphy Murphy just to have have you know, a couple of 250 pages of fun and to see if you really write a story with the you know, the main theme being you know, how many redundant phrases I can get into this and and it turned out to be a ton of fun. And right now I'm working on um we just I just sent Beacon my latest which already said it's called Song Girl. And the idea for that was I wanted to write a story initially about a person that has a traumatic accident as a head injury has, you know, falls into a coma and when she wakes up, she can only speak in song lyrics, can I write a book with that as the premise um I found out legally that you can't use song lyrics in a book. So that became but you can use song titles. So now she wakes up and she can only speak in song titles. Um So that books coming out in january and I just started on the sequel to Murphy Murphy, which is uh now murph Murphy is involved with the commission on cliches. So how many cliches? I can get into a book and tell a story. Um and you know it's just it's a challenge and it's fun and um you know I've gotten great, you know, great feedback people seem to really enjoy it and so I'm going to keep going. Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. I can't wait to see the next book, Song Girl and then we're gonna come out with another Murphy Murphy, the cliche one, but this one is all about redundancy, so I love it, that he's in the redundancy department. So I appreciate you joining me, keith, tell me a little bit about your story, I love hearing how sports shaped your life and really help you get to where you are today. So thank you for joining me on how to up with Gus really appreciate it. It's been my pleasure guys, I really enjoyed it. Thanks a lot. Yeah, so hey everyone that's another episode of huddle up with Gus. I thank you for joining me. I want to thank all of our friends. Uh Sounder FM 16 31 digital news and don't forget to go to Vegas sports advantage where you can put in my code, huddle up, save 25% and uh hopefully win some money. Uh you know uh keith, thank you, it was a great story, I loved hearing everyone, loves hearing the back stories about, you know, ESPN the golf...

...channel, Everything we do, People love hearing the locker room stories of what's happened before game. So keith gives us a great insight to everything that he's been through and you know, just about how no matter where you come from or what you do, sports has a big role in your life. Thank you keith and thank you to everyone for listening and we'll see you next time on huddle up with Gus and that's a wrap sportsman, Thanks for joining in the fun at the 16 31 digital studios for another to huddle up with Gus featuring 15 year NFL quarterback. Gus, Veron, huddle Up with Gus is proudly produced by 1631 digital media and is available on apple music.

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