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Huddle Up with Gus
Huddle Up with Gus

Episode · 2 months ago

Keith Hirshland

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Welcome to the huddle with 15-year NFL quarterback Gus Frerotte! On today’s show, Gus hosts a pioneer in sports broadcasting, Keith Hirshland who as a sports television producer with more than three decades of experience snagged himself an Emmy Award for his unique presentations of professional golf. In fact, he produced shows that aired on ESPN and ESPN2 and later were among the first forty people hired by The Golf Channel in 1994. He was in the middle of the action when it premiered in 1995 and provided his talents for all golf networks for close to two decades. Gus and Keith get into the weeds about how television broadcasting of professional golf evolved over time, what it was like traveling and being around some of the golf treats, and what the outlook is for the future of televised golf.  

Hey everyone. Welcome to anotherepisode of huddle up with Gus, I'm your host, former NFL quarterback GusFrerotte and welcome to the new 16 31 digital new studio. You know, somepeople say no news is good news. Well I say to those people you've never read.16 31 digital news dot com. Go to 16 31 digital news dot com to get your latestnews, sports, music and entertainment and maybe even listen to your favoritepodcast. Follow up with Gusts. Check it out today at www. 16 31 digital newsdot com. Huddle up with Gusts is brought to you by Vegas sportsadvantage, clients of Vegas. Sports advantage are winning big in 2021 youcan be a part of the winning two. As of june 1st $100. Bettors are up $3700 500dollars. Bettors are up $18,500 and $1000. Bettors are up $37,000 and $5000.Bettors are up $185,000 become inclined today by clicking the link in thedescription below and use promo code, huddle up To take 25% off your packagetoday. Thanks to our partnership. Welcome to what surely will be a doozyof a matchup brian here. Sports fans. Whether your game is on the gridiron atthe diamond or on the links, we can only say welcome to this week's huddle up withgusts. 15 year NFL quarterback Gus parents passion for sports has takenhim on the field and behind the bench is playing for seven NFL franchiseswith 114 TVs under his belt. Gust knows who the players are and how the gamesare. One. Uh, it's not every day you get to hang out with an NFL quarterbackup. Okay, Sports fans from the decked out and plush 16 31 digital studios,it's kick off time. So snap your chin straps on and get ready to huddle upwith us two left. Hey everyone, welcome to anotherepisode of huddle up with Gus, I'm your host, Gus Frerotte, 15 year NFLquarterback and I want to thank you for listening. I also want to thank all ofour partners. 16 31 digital news. I want to thank my team, terry Shulmanand super producer brian. I also want to thank sounder FM. Where we host ourpodcast. They do a great job of taking podcasts and transcribing them, puttingthem on youtube and doing everything. You need to have a successful podcast.And I also want to thank Vegas sports advantage. There are partner, go toVegas sports advantage, putting my coat huddle up, save 25% and you know, ifyou really want to win some serious cash on betting. If you're into thatthing, go to Vegas sports advantage man. They will help you. I think this pastweekend. Uh they won 13 out of 15 games where they were they were betting onthese guys know what they're doing. They look at all the data and analytics,they really help you. So go to Vegas sports advantage, putting my codehuddle up and save 25%. So today's guest we have an author but it also hasbeen an Emmy winning sports producer. Uh He was started with ESPN ESPN two,he was also started with the Golf channel back way back in 94 when I wasdrafted and you know when when the Golf channel started debuting in 95 you know,he was a big part of it, He was a big tournament producer. So he's seen allthe ins and outs of the Golf channel since then and been through someincredible things. He's also an author, he's written several books uh and youknow, he's he was kind enough to send me some. So the first one I think thathe ever wrote was keith herschel and Cover Me Boys. I'm going in tales ofthe tube from a broadcast brat. Uh you know this one is great. Um and you know,he's written a ton of books. I think he comes his dad was in broadcasting, sohe's got a lot of experience in it. So I can't wait to talk to him about that.And also this one, the newest one, he wrote Murphy Murphy and the case of theserious crisis as you can see. Um it's the first place winner. It's also a uhI think we got it upside down here on here, the book title, Radio, book talkradio club. So um right here joining us today, keith Hirschl and keith, how areyou doing? It's great to see you, I know you live in Colorado Springs andand I hear you're also a big animal lover, I am all those things, it'sgreat to be with you guess, and I'm really excited and honored to beincluded in uh in the great lineup of guests you had on huddle up, but I haveto say I'm a little dismayed because I'm a lifelong 40 Niner fan and I wentback and left and I think you were like five and two against the 49 ers in yourcareer, so I'm gonna have to get over that, but you played pretty wellagainst them, I always love playing against the 49 ers them and the Raiders.Uh oh, I don't know why, you know, just some teams that were just uh had a lotof enjoyment playing against, but man,...

...you talk about the 49 ers what a greatfranchise. Yeah, it's been a great, it's been great to be a fan. We have,you know, it's like everything else, there was some really, you know ups anddowns, but the highs are really high and uh and then looking pretty goodthis year. But yeah, we love, you know, bust sarah and I, we have two dogs, twobig dogs were big dog lovers. So we have a Bernese mountain dog and a puredoodle, which is a great Pyrenees poodle mix so they keep us busy. Yeah,they're great dogs, wow, we have three dogs. We have we have uh they call hima pocket pitbull. She just turned one today. Fiona this this about threemonths ago we rescued a dog from africa. She's a BSMG, she's about £20 and she'sshe's the meanest, toughest one of them all. And then we rescued a big old dogday bordeaux uh Sully. And uh so we brought sully into our house. So it'sbeen a journey and they're all three completely different. They're allpretty much idiots and hard to manage them all. Yeah, well you might hear, Ihave to apologize in advance because you might hear our mark if the ups guycomes because that's their favorite person in the whole wide world. So,well yeah that the mailman, anybody who pulls up in the driveway and it's beenuh it's been a real treat to have them. It's been a lot of work. We finally gota dog trainer to like you think you can do all this with three dogs and they'reall completely different personalities and so she's a behavioralist and a dogtrainer, so she really helps us with everything. Um And it's just been we'vebeen pretty blessed to have her good. Yeah it is hard. So going back I thinkyou're our first guest from reno Nevada. Okay, so tell me a little bit aboutgrowing up in Reno and your first memory of how you fell in love withsports because you know that's really about our show is everybody has thispassion for sports no matter which way you go when you get older, but it allstarts somewhere. So tell me about in reno where that started for you. Yeah.You know, it was a great place to grow up in the, in the early sixties, latefifties, early sixties because you know, it was it was just one of those townswhere you know, nobody locks their doors, you could ride your bikeanywhere. We had, you know, a group of friends and neighborhood pals that youknow, you play football in the front yard wiffle ball and and I really, Iwould have to credit my sport. My love of sports probably goes back to myparents who were, who were sports fans. I mean some of my fondest memories arethinking about my mom, uh, who would listen to san Francisco giantsbroadcast Russ, Hodges and Lon simmons on the radio. Uh, you know, they taughtus um, you know what sports meant in terms of development and how you couldbe part of a team, how you could succeed and you could fail, you knowhow to how to win gracefully, how to lose gracefully and and you know, I waslucky. I and I think those of us that grew up in that era, you know of, youknow, there was, there was always something going on in terms of a littleleague game or a Pop Warner game you sports was you know, was huge in renoand everybody had a chance to participate and you know that love ofsports carried on, you know, I had a dream of playing professional golf, Ithought that you know, you played everything as a kid but you know, Ikind of took the golf and played on the high school golf team and thought I waspretty darn good because I could shoot right around even par almost every timeI teed it up and went to college on a partial golf scholarship up in PortlandOregon and started playing against guys like Pat fitzsimons and my mark Lie andmight be Clampett and guys that can shoot 567 under every time they eat itup. And I realized pretty quick that that was not the future for me. Yeah,that would, that would be incredible though. I mean I've always tried to getmy sons to play golf just because I said, look, yeah, you may not be greatat it. Like you know, you may be great at it, but you have that swing forever,you can play golf forever and go out with your buddies and have such a goodtime. And so when you were going through that, did you play any othersports as well? Did we, did we play like I said, we played everything, youknow, we were involved in little league and then Babe ruth baseball pop Warnerfootball. I wrestled in high school. You know, again I'm dating myself butback then you had spring sports, you had winter sports yet fall sports soyou could choose to play football or wrestle or you know, uh, in the springit was golfer baseball. I was leaning toward golf. I also like I said, Iwrestled, I played, you know, we were we were sports fans and we were both, Ihave two brothers, an older brother and a younger brother and we were allinvolved in sports and golf was really kind of the family like the familybrought the family unit together because my mom and dad played so wewould go out on the weekend and you know we play as a family and my campgrowing up as a kid was my mom would drop us off at the golf course at eighto'clock in the morning and pick us up at 5 30 at night and we'd spend theentire day, they're picking the range...

...and practicing and doing whatever youknow, the head pro asked us to do but at the same time taking lessons andlearning how to play the game. So I was really, really lucky. You know, I meanuh it was such an easier time and we had a ton of fun and sports was, sportswas a huge and is still in our family and my wife's family and you know, ahuge part of our life. Yeah, no, that's great. Um you know, golf is just such afun game to play and it's mentally taxing, it's, you know, you know,there's just so many things to say about it and I think learning it at ayoung age would have been so much fun, like I never played until I was almostin college. Yeah, you know, and really had no idea what I was doing. And so Iwas always excited to teach my sons early about the rules, the rules andthe etiquette are some of the most important things about the game, notjust swinging, which they thought it was. Yeah, absolutely, I mean, it'sagain, like you said, first of all, it's a game of a lifetime, I mean I'm65 I'm still playing, you know, it's something that obviously your, yourskill level in your talent level goes up and down, but you know, you can play,my dad played into his, you know, late seventies and so did my mom, so it is agame of a lifetime. And it also teaches you, you know, it teaches you lifelessons, especially now things like the first t that's kind of what they're allabout teaching the life lessons of golf, not just the athletic part of it, butyou know what the rules mean, what etiquette is, how to treat your fellowcompetitor and all those things. And I was, you know, I my career in broadcasttelevision spanned over 40 years, almost 40 years. And you know, I wasinvolved in producing a number of sports, baseball, volleyball, football,field high. I mean, you name it, I was, you know, I probably sat in the chairand and did something in terms of those sports and and I always found that, youknow, my career in golf was the most rewarding And you know, not to say thatother athletes aren't great across the board, but almost to a person,professional golfers are among the, you know, the nicest group of people, thebest group of people I've ever been around. So it's a great game and I, youknow, I'm glad you got your son into it. My sons, I couldn't get them interestedin it at all. And now my oldest who's almost 40 plays every day. He got acouple of years ago and now he loves it and plays every day. So it comes to itat different times and you know, play for the next 30, 40, 50 years, I hope.Yeah, I know that's what I enjoyed to, I don't really care what any of us,shoot, I just love being out there with them, it's special. So where did youend up going to college? I went to Lewis and Clark College in Portland fora couple of years um like I said, I went there to play golf and uh found the competition was a littlelittle stiffer than was good for my game. And also as its want to do upthere, I grew up, you know, growing up in Reno, the sunshine is about 350 daysof the year, so it's beautiful and even when it snows in the morning and theafternoon the sun comes out kind of like colorado, which is really nice.But uh You know, I went up there and there was a stretch, felt like Noah,building an ark, there was a stretch where with this son didn't come out for40 days. So, you know, I was feeling like I missed home, I missed, you know,I wasn't playing good golf, I wasn't competitive in terms of college golf.So then I went back to reno and finished up at the University of Nevada.Oh, nice. And so then what was your major, like, what did you decide tomajor in? Yeah, at Lewis and Clark, I was, I majored in creative writing,which was kind of a funny kind of circle circle back to now that I'mwriting books, but when I went back to Nevada, they didn't have that as amajor and I ended up majoring in journalism, which helped me in mytelevision career, so, uh those were kind of the two things that Iconcentrated on. So you've had all the, you've had your first, you know,transition where you go from high school college, it's a big transitionfor everyone and then you're in the middle of college, you make anothertransition to back back home and you have to figure it out again. So thennow you've graduated from Nevada. How do you get into television? Did youtell somebody or how did that happen for you? You know, it's funny, it'skind of that, that combination that, that recipe of luck and timing andconnections and, you know, the willingness to take a chance here andthere and, you know, all those things, you know, that mix of life that comestogether and you find out, you know, you kind of have a calling. And um, Iwas extremely fortunate and my parents uh, started a Tv, my dad worked at alocal affiliate tv station when we first moved to Reno when I was, youknow, two years old. And then he, at the time there were only, this was thelate fifties, there were only two TV stations in Reno, there was an NBCaffiliate and CBS affiliate and my dad...

...went to manage the CBS affiliate. Andthen in the sixties abc came along and my folks got a group of investorstogether and started the AbC affiliate in Reno Nevada. So, um, I grew uparound it. I mean part of my, you know, part of my growing up was as my parentsboth went off to go run this Tv station. My brothers and I were tasked withstaying home and watching channel two to make sure that and write down allthe commercials that aired so that we could go back and checked against the,you know what they had in the log and what they could do. But I grew uparound the Tv station, I love going there, I love the people. Um and thenwhen I went away to college, you know, I kind of didn't think about it. Andwhen I came back to Reno we had a minor league hockey team in Reno called theReno Aces and one night I was there with a couple of friends at the gameand the sports director, a great guy named joe Pickett had showed up to withhis film camera to record some highlights of the Reno Aces game. Andso I went down to say I have known him from hanging around the station. I wentdown to say hello and he was kind of griping and moaning about having to doyou come here and shoot these highlights and he'd really rather beout having a beer with, you know the news director and I'll shoot thehighlights, Give me the camera, I'll shoot the highlights and he's like hecouldn't have given me that camera fast enough. So all of a sudden, you know,kind of thanks to his goodwill and maybe a little bit of his laziness. Uhyou know, I started volunteering really to go out and do the high schoolfootball game highlights or go interview this coach or that coach or,and it just kind of, you know, snowballed into uh into a nice littlelittle career in television, I started out on the air doing sports um whenthere was also a show called PM magazine back in the early eightiesthat I hosted, but realized pretty quickly that I didn't like being infront of the camera, I much preferred being behind the scenes and writing thestories and putting together the uh you know, all the, all the things, so um Igot off the air and went behind the scenes and became a producer and adirector, so you know, like I said, it was luck, it was being in the rightplace at the right time, but it was also, you know, you got, you like tothink you had a little bit of skill because you wouldn't have stuck if youdidn't so well, you were pretty early with ESPN as well, right? Yeah, youknow, it was uh ESPN came along and you know, it was one of those things, isthat as a person in sports tv, that was like, oh my gosh, I want to work forESPN and you know, I didn't quite get there initially, but I ended up workingfor one of the most brilliant tv producers of all time, A guy named DonOhlmeyer who had a production company in Los Angeles and I tell a bunch ofthese stories and cover me boys, I'm going in, but I ended up in L. A. Onhis team and they produced all the gulf for ESPN all the PGA tour Golf, theLPGA Tour Golf and the champion story. So I got involved in, I became a partof that team and uh I was working for Don and his production company forabout a year and he sold Omar communications to ESPN. So that's how Ibecame an employee of ESPN because it bought Dons company and a couple ofyears later I was trying to I came in another crossroads, you know, in lifewhen you're married too young kids trying to make the living in losAngeles California and realizing that the money isn't quite adding up. So Iwent after a bit of a raise and they said no and but they said, you knowwhat, we just started this television network, the second network in bristolESPN two, and how would you feel like moving, how would you feel about movingto bristol and and being one of the producers on ESPN two and helping uslaunch that network. So I jumped at that chance and and went out to, wentout to Connecticut and and roam the halls of bristol Connecticut for aboutnine months before the Golf channel came to Collins. So, wow. So now didyou commute there? Did you take your whole family with you? We took thewhole family. That was, you know, I look back on now and I was like, youknow, my wife at the time, um was, you know, pretty much a ST, you know, it'slike, here we go, we're going to, you know, we're in L. A. But we're going tomove, you know, the whole family had a one year old and a three year old andwe're going to move to to Connecticut. Um, luckily she had family inConnecticut. So she was all for that nine months later, when Golf Channeloffered me the job, she was a little less excited about moving to Orlandowith the kids. But so in the, you know, in the span of 10 months I moved, Imoved the family from Los Angeles to Connecticut to Orlando florida. And uh,Wow, I would like my career 15 years...

...right, moving all over the place. Yeah,that is hard on our wives when, when they have to take our Children. Youknow, I mean, some of my best memories were when we were on the car andtraveling all over the country together, but uh, when, when you're a parent andyou're by yourself and we had three little ones. It's a tough, it's a toughdeal. Yeah. Well, you know, and, and, and, and the career that I had,especially with Golf Channel, you know, I was the live turn, I was the first, Ithink I was one of the 1st 40 people hired a golf channel in october of 94we launched in january of 95 my job was to produce all our live tournaments, Sothat was 35, somewhere between 30 and 35 weeks a year that I was on the road,I was gone, and it was a you know, I mean, you're gone for a week, I mean,you travel on Tuesday, set up, do the tournament through thursday, throughsunday, come home your home monday, just to do laundry and then get back onan airplane on Tuesday, so um it broke our marriage, I mean, you know, and Italked about that in the book to and because that's what it's tough, youknow, I mean, you have two little guys and I'm pursuing the career that Iloved, so I was selfish in that regard a little bit, but at the same time, youknow, you leave Mhm frozen, uh we lost you there for a second,keith, no worries, uh you can just continue, okay, you know, it's justit's it's you know, sadly or what, it's just part of life and um you know, mywife, my ex wife was, you know, a wonderful mother, we have, you know,two great kids together and you know, she did a wonderful job raising themwhile I was off pursuing my dream and you know living the you know the tvlife and uh so it's you look back on it and again like I said I I don't Iwouldn't have done any I wouldn't have done anything differently Right now. Ihear you, you know my wife I had a kind of similar career where I was going allthe time and you have to spend a lot of time to be good at what you're doing inthat field uh in the facility, you're not home a lot. So my wife we've beenlucky, we've got through therapy, we've done those things to try and staytogether. We've done it for 26 years, so Been together 31 so we've we've beenthrough a lot of that and it's still struggle like it's what you said it'sit's it's it's not always easy and you know especially when kids in the mix, Imean my daughter's dog is not feeling well, she's down in D. C. And she'sgoing on vacation. So I have to drive to D. C. Tomorrow and pick up her dog,bringing you do what you gotta do right, you guys that's awesome, it never stops.So so then you're in you're in with the Golf channel now what was the firsttournament that that you produced? So we we uh it's funny we had a couple oftest tournaments. So we like I said we um we, I was hired in, in october of 1994we were going to launch in january of 1995 and that first, the week of launch,we actually had an LPGA tournament at Disney called the HealthSouth Inaugural,so we were going to be, you know, kind of one of the mainstays, the anchors ofour first week of launch, there was a european tour event um before us andthen our LPGA event, but we were, it was, I mean it's crazy because it waskind of like the wild, wild West, I mean, you know, there was this group of100 100 or so people that converged on Orlando florida and any time betweenlike august of 1994 and january of 1995 and we were all thrown together to tryand put, you know, a 24 hour television golf television network on the air, sothere were a lot of people that have never worked together, we had a lot ofpeople that were, you know, getting to know each other and luckily the folksdown there in Orlando bob greenway and Gary Stevenson and, and mike Whalen whowas really kind of the architect of the production, Yeah, I had faith in ourteam because the director that was hired along with me to produce was aguy that had directed a number of golf events for ESPN as well, so we kind ofknew what we were doing and we put together and they luckily for me anyway,and for the way things turned out, they kind of told em it and myself, you know,you guys know what you're doing, you go do it, and because we got a lot of, youknow, we got 100 other things to worry about back here in Orlando, so theysent us off on the road to produce golf tournaments. But that first event wasan LPGA event that Pat Bradley one, she's in the Hall of Fame. And uh, sothat kind of got us off and running and, you know, through the years we wereable to televise, you know, some great PGA tour events, some great in thoseearly years, you know, Tiger turned pro...

...in 96 we saw him a handful of timesplaying in tournaments that we broadcast. I was this close to beingthe producer for Tigers first PGA tour win. Uh it was at what is now the johnDeere classic. Yeah, he played and uh had the lead going into the final dayand on the fourth or fifth hole of that sunday he made a triple bogey and lostthe lead and a guy named Ed Fiori beat him and so we were, we didn't get toproduce Tigers first when that happened in Vegas later that year when myfriends and the guys I used to work with that ESPN got to produce the Vegastournament that Tiger went in a playoff over paint Stewart and then the nextweek he came to Orlando, another event that we were producing and he won, so Iwas there for Tiger second win and then you know the rest is history. We neversaw him again because he stopped playing and events that we weretelevising. So it was great while he, you know, he was he was he couldn'thave been a nicer guy in that in that first year. I mean he always showed upfor interviews, he was always there. If we asked him to do something, he'd doit. And um I look back on that time and think how lucky I am that uh you knowthe greatness that is Tiger Woods, we were there for a bit of it that firstyear. So who did you say beat him the first time? Ed Fiori, Ed Fiori, Yeah,he was kind of a journeyman pro, He was a journeyman pro that had this funnygrip he had, you know, like he really grip the club differently and in facthis nickname was the grip uh and he held off Tiger that day and it waspretty, it was, it was pretty, it's what I'm saying, like how many timesyou think Ed Fiore has been sitting somewhere in the bar. I'm the guy thatbeat Tiger Woods is right, right, like like just his claim to fame. He's talking aboutit all the time. So when you're producing, you're almost like thequarterback of the team because your almost telling, you know, you'retelling everybody what to do, you're calling the plays, you're doing this,you're doing that. So tell us a little bit like how your sports experiencegrowing up and being part of teams helped you when you became a producer.It's critical. I mean, the teamwork because um you know, producing a golftournament is really unlike any other sport. And, you know, I don't say thatbecause I did it, I say it because it's true, you know, and the way we justdescribed it was, you know, unlike most stick and ball sports, you know, moststick and ball sports, there's there's one field, one offense, one defense,you know, one, you know, they're calling tv timeouts, there's, you know,natural stoppages in play, whereas in golf there's 18 fields of play, there's100 at times 156 players uh and they're all playing offense all the time andthere's no tv time out. So, you know, you can't, the producer in golf um isreally is really the quarterback because that's the person that decideswhat shot is going to be shown when um and then it's my job to say, okay,we're gonna show Tiger Woods for Birdie of 13, then we're going to show PayneStewart, second shot of 14 and then we're gonna come back for Tiger Woodstee shot at 14 and I communicate that to the director and then the director'sjob is to talk to the camera man, he tells, so he's got a number of camerasset up on that 13th green. So he decides how to show paint the pictureof the story that I'm trying to tell. And then I also talked to theannouncers. So um, I'm telling the announcers where we're going and allthey're seeing is there's a couple guys on the ground on the golf course and acouple of guys and towers or boosts and all they're seeing is a tv monitor infront of them. So there's this tremendous and I'm sure you felt thatway playing quarterback in the league. Um, there's a tremendous amount oftrust that has to happen that your receiver is going to be at the pointwhere you're intending to throw the ball, receivers got to trust the factthat you're going to throw the ball to the spot where he's going to be well,it's the same kind of the same thing With Gulf that announcer has to trustthe fact that when I tell him we're going to tigers birdie at 13, thatthat's where we're going because he's going to say it and if I had at thelast second to go somewhere else that hangs him out to dry. So no, I hear youtalking to a bunch of people at the same time, you're also listening to amillion people at the same time. It's I love when people say golf watching golfon Tv is boring because inside the T. V. Truck it's anything about boring. WellI liken it to a football game right? You got your first quarter where yourgolfers like every thursday friday and then there's the cut but you gotta kindof film every you're on tv for how many hours right? So you don't really at theend in the fourth quarter when it gets exciting and you know the leaders areevery day, it's probably a little...

...easier to film that. Then in thebeginning you're just trying to figure out who am I gonna shoot. So how didyou figure that out? Well you kind of go in with a plan. It's always, youknow what was, what was mike, Tyson's famous line, everybody's got a planuntil you get hit in the mouth or whatever. But um you have a planbecause the pairings, the groupings come out on Wednesday and you're on theair on thursday like say you're every time might be from 1 to 4 from 2 to 5or from noon to five. And with those early days of the golf channel we kindof had a motto. We were lucky enough that we didn't have a 60 minutes tohave to go to or any kind of show any other network show through live golfkind of drove the train. So there were times when we were on the air for 68,10 hours and, and we'd sit through rain delays, like we wouldn't go away, we'dsit there and do interviews, but you kind of have a plan. So you have agrouping, say it's, you know, there's two or three groups that are going tobe in your tv window and you build your kind of build a plan around those guys.And the tour was nice enough to kind of make sure that the bigger name playerswere playing in the tv window or the guys that, you know, you kind of figurewe're gonna have a chance to win the tournament even though it was thursdayor friday. Um, so then you go in there with that plan and then all of a suddenthose guys play terrible and somebody on the other side of the golf courseslighten it up. So you gotta rearrange, shift the cameras, you know, your wholeplan goes out the window. But um, you try and do that and throughout thecourse of my 18 years of golf channel, the, the technology in broadcasting andsports television in television in general, but especially in sportstelevision is, you know, having, you know, I'm sure you still watch NFLgames and are amazed by what they do now with, with, with things, but ingolf it was really when I first started, um, and I hate to go too much into theweeds. But You know you can only like I said there are a bunch of guys playingat the same time and then wave in the afternoon waiver when you're on the air,there could be 70 guys playing golf. So you can only show obviously one of themat a time, right? So and one of them live at a time. And when I firststarted we had four video tape machines that would record the gulf. So when theproducer, a guy named Andy Young who was my mentor was showing Gus Farhat onthe 12th green putting for birdie, it was my job to find four other shotsthat I thought Andy might and he would tell me to say record this, record thatrecord this. So he could put those, you know that piece of that puzzle backtogether, showing the tape shots around the live shots. And this was I got areal right here, how many how many cameras were on? Of course it's actualvideotape. So I mean this is on a machine and it was on a machinerecording golf shots just you know, and but the technology was such that youhad to record it. So you push play and record. We had a tape tape operator, hepushed play and record record Gus Frerotte second shot at 12. That wouldlast anywhere between 12 and 30 seconds depending on what happened. You'd givea little bit of pad at the end of it and then have to stop the machine,rewind the machine and queue it up and then for you have it get ready forplayback so all this stuff was going on and as technology breast now this hasgone the way of digital recording devices that can record and play backup to six things at once so there's no more you know letting the shot gothrough, stopping it, rewinding it for playback now, it's just it can play andrecord at the same time so it made it easier or harder. My gosh it's so mucheasier you know because you never have to wait, you know the producer nowdoesn't have to wait for that other shot to finish too, you know screw uphis timing or figure out where he's going to go next because it's alwaysthere ready to go and you have things like ball tracer now and you have youknow how fast your swing was so there's a lot that the people can talk aboutbesides just watching them hit. Yeah absolutely and that's the other part oftechnology that's changed that in the cameras Again, I feel I feel like I'mthe guy that said when I went you know I went to school, I walked uphill youknow through the snow in both ways but you know we are cameraman, we used tolay up to 100,000 ft of cable on the golf course and our camera guys wouldhave sections of cable. So there will be a cable at the T. You'd run that tothe fairway. There'd be another cable from the fairway to the green. So ourcamera guys that were out walking with the groups would plug in at the T.Shoot the shot unplugged, getting a...

...card go up to the fairway, beat theplayers get to their spot in the fairway, plug in. So then we could seethe shot again. And what's called radio frequency technology, R. F. Technologycame 20 years ago. Whereas all of a sudden if a camera there was a receiverand a transmitter transmitter on the camera receiver somewhere high uparound the golf course. And if that camera could see that seaver you couldget a picture. So all of a sudden now you could get a picture from anywhereon the golf course without having to plug in and unplug cables. So that wastechnology that really helped golf. And but the the tracer technology and theball speed we used it was my brilliant idea at one point to get the baseballjugs gun. Yeah. And we, I thought I wonder because we were at a tournamentone time and we pulled into the compound and there was a Californiahighway patrolman there with his radar gun. And I was like, well he measuresthe speed of the car. You know coming at him. I wonder if we could usesomething like that to measure the speed of the golf ball going away. So Icalled the people of jugs and they sent us a couple of guns and it turned outthat it actually worked. We could measure the ball speed when the guyteed off. Yeah. Track man right now. It sounds like, yeah, there's theprecursor to track where you go with a volunteer sitting behind the D box,where the jugs gotten pointed at all. You should have just had a state likethat would be like the state troopers day off coming up and like, hey we'lllet you come on the course where your uniform, you can measure all the speed.Yeah, yeah, that's a good idea. He would have been good at it because hewas used to work in the dark thing. Right. Exactly, exactly. Hey everyone,thank you for listening. We're gonna take a quick commercial break. We'retalking with author, uh Emmy winning producer, keith, herschel in, we'll beright back uh uh huh. Hey, head off with gusts listenersmanscaped. They sent me uh they hooked me up with a bunch of tools andformulations for their package 3.0 Kit. Uh so you know, I want to show you guyswhat's in the perfect package, right? We all think we got a perfect packagebut they sent me the perfect package three point okay. And I want to showyou what they sent me. So it was crazy. It came in this great box, uh, you know,and you can see what it says. They will thank you because they sent us thisawesome trimmer. They sent us, uh, you know, stuff that makes you smell better.And then, you know, they sent me this great, uh, some boxers, you what youget right, protect them. And then, uh, you know, they sent me this cool itsack, I guess you want to call it to store all your stuff in. So, uh, it'sbeen great. Manscaped sent me a bunch of product. Um, you know, and you know,you can see it all on here. Uh, you know, if you can go to Manscaped dotcom and put in the code, uh, Gus Frerotte, that's G U S F R E R O T T E.Get 20% off and free shipping when you use that code. But you can get a kit,you can get individual items like, uh, this way. Cool rumor that has a littleled light, um, ceramic. These things come apart. They're waterproof. You cando a lot with them. So, you know, man scape is great. You know, it's funnymoney. I remember when I was playing with the Denver broncos and I'm notgoing to mention any names, but there was a gentleman who was playing on ourteam. And uh, you know, if you ever hears the story, you'll know exactlywhat I'm talking about, but he brought his own clippers in one time and heused to trim his beard up his goatee and everything and he had him there forabout two or three weeks and he goes in around the corner, he walks in andthere's a person, another player that is actually manscaping with his beardtrimmer. So you know, one of the things is you don't want to use the sametrimmer down there that you use up here. So uh he kind of freaked out a littlebit and he said, hey, how long have you been using that tool there? And he said,well, showed up here about three weeks ago and I've been using it ever since.So you know, there is a lesson learned that, you know, don't leave things outand probably, uh, if it would have just said Manscaped on it, uh we wouldn'thave had that issue, but it's probably one of the funniest, uh, taking care ofyour ball stories I've ever heard or been around in the locker room in theNFL. So, uh, it's a great story. Um, but you know, I always said there wasno way to know, there's no name on it and the guy was just using it andanother guy was using, it was not good,...

...but it's a heck of a funny story. Soone of the best I've ever heard in my 15 years playing in the league, um, butyou know, there's so many great things about Manscaped what they're doing, uh,because guys, you got to take care of yourself even though I got great hair,um, and getting older, but you still have to maintain some sort of grooming,right? And so, uh, you know, we all work out for me. I like working in myyard doing those things now that I'm retired, get a little sweat on andeverything. You want to smell good. You know, you got to take care of yourself,They've got some great products, uh, you know, this one, uh, a little uh,ball deodorant, we'll need that here and there. Um, after, you know, workingthe yard, taking a hike, doing a walk, whatever you do. Um, it's a great thing.But there's so many great products. Um, I want to thank Manscaped for sendingthem to me. Um, uh, the lawnmower 3.0. Obviously you can use it anywhere inyour body, but I'm sure you guys have all seen the commercials, But this isone just letting you know that the lawnmower 3.0, comes with the perfectkit. You can buy the lawnmower by itself by all these productsindividually. They even sent me this wonderful shirt. You can see the back,your balls will thank you and then here's the front. So it's an awesomeshirt to have a great gear and you know what? Sometimes you can just sit back,take care of your balls a little bit and and and read the paper. SoManscaped even has their own daily news, so which is great. So don't forget thatyou can go to the code Gus Frerotte and that's G. U. S. F. R. E. R. O. T. T. E.Uh And you can save 20% on any products, the complete the perfect uh packagegift set and uh you know, you can save 20% and get free shipping, so use thecode just for a G. U. S. F. R. E. R. O. T. T. E. Hey everybody spells my namewrong, they even spelled wrong in the back of my pro bowl jersey. So you know,I gotta I gotta help you guys out. So don't forget how important it is thatyou use these products, take care of yourself down below and have some fun,right? There's nothing closer to you than your little buddies. So use thelawnmower. Uh use the code Gus Frerotte, save 20% and get free shipping and uhorder some Great Manscaped products. Uh Mhm. Do you want everyone welcome back tohuddle up with Gus I'm your host. Gus Frerotte. I want to thank everyone forjoining us again. We're talking with keith herschel an author and uh youknow, keith uh we got a question in our email from a mr Ray Wishner out ofBethesda Maryland. And so he had a question actually there's two questionsfor you. he first he asked how has the game of golf change since keith wascovering the Golf channel? Uh you know, it's I think that likeanything else um in our world today, the sports world today, that you know,one of the, one of the major changes is that the athletes are bigger, stronger,better, um and you know, you can relate to that, watching the national footballLeague, I mean you wouldn't have dreamed of, you know, guys hitting theball as far as as they hit it now, or you know, being as proficient as theyare, there were great players, you know, they were great players, obviouslythere have been throughout the course of golf history um there were longdrivers, you know, john daly comes to mind, I mean, Jack Nicholas and his daywas very long, um but you know, that they were also, you know, and I don'tmean any, I don't mean to disparage anybody, but they were also smokers anddrinkers and you know, I mean, it was, you know, it just was life, you know,they were tremendous athletes, but they also knew how to have a good time andyou know, when that I was, we were around, you know, in the early dayswhen the first um you know, exercise van or the band came out on tour andthe PGA Tour guys like all excited about it, and when we go to aChampion's Tour event, the guys were like, why would I spend any time inthat. Exactly. So the main thing is that just the athletes are so much justso much better and um you know, which is great, it's great for golf, it'sgreat for any sport and it's great for...

...us fans to watch. So, I mean, you havea guy like D Shambo who's hitting it, you know, 500 yards, it's great andit's not a long drive, You know, a guy who has a 54" driver, you know, it'sjust, he's just built differently and just technology and everything isletting him drive it further. Yeah, and he's taken that and that's not goodenough for him. He wants to say, well I want to get it to 402 yards or I wantto get it before the last tournament did it. Yeah, that's crazy. He fellapart in the second shows you that golf is a mental game, like, you know, and I,you know, it's very hard and you gotta be accurate and you can't change yourswing in the middle of around all these things happen. It's crazy. I lovepeople that I love people that, you know, you talk to and yeah, you runinto and you're in the gulf business and you know, do you play? I asked, youknow, do you play? And they say, oh yeah, but I'm not any good and I'm like,well nobody is any good, don't worry, you know, I just played Oakmont. I Iturned 50 and I played Oakmont. I lived two doors down from it. And so my buddyand I have the same um we have the same birthday, exactly were same age. Uh heused to be the ceo of any p, you know, have any PS So kevin rap, Yeah, kevinRabbit's name. So kevin, we have the same birthday, invited me to play golfover there and I was doing real, I was doing okay. I mean we're playing theblues and you know, I'm just having fun where it's a bunch of us out there andthen but 16, 17 and 18 just kicked my butt. I'm like, I couldn't hit a draftstraight. I was like, what is going on? But you know, I saved it with a par in18. But uh man, I was hard, that one on the back, that's one of the hardestgolf courses in the world. Yeah, so much shot a 41 on the front, whichwasn't that, but you know those, those greens are so hard to put on everyother green because they have the U. S. Open the amateur this week. So theamateurs of this and the open was there, What a couple of years ago? Yeah, 18,17 or 18 when Dustin johnson Columbia. Yeah. And you know, the thing is, isthat they were getting the greens ready. So all the other courses around here,the greens aren't that fast and you go there and it just, you can't even judgethe speed when you don't play on them like that. You know what I mean? Yeah,it was difficult. All right. So the second question from Ray out ofBethesda is in your opinion, who is the top golfer in the world today and why?Oh, jeez, really a opinion? Uh, yeah, you know, gosh, there are so many greatplayers. Um, you know, I mean, I guess you would, you can't go too far without mentioningjohn rahm's name. I mean the guy is just, he's come up big Dustin johnsonis still a great player. He tends to be a little less consistent maybe thanrahm these days. But um, and you know, I guess all those guys that are comingup like Colin moore cow, it was awesome to watch Xander softly when the goldmedal uh, in Tokyo, that was an amazing, amazing week for golf. So if, if youput, you know, if you put a gun to my head and said, who's the number oneplayer in the world right now? I would probably say john wrong, I lovewatching john round play. You know, because it looks like his body lookslike mine kind of, you know what I mean? He's not this little skinny dude outthere, just, you know, he's like a big solid dude play, uh huh. He looks likejust no offense anybody else playing, but he looks like a normal guy playing,You know what I mean? Like I would go to any course here in Pittsburgh andI'd see john somebody who looks like Jon rahm playing out, especiallythere's, there's a lot of john daly is here in Pittsburgh, but you know, we'llleave that one out, I love Jon rahm, a lot of fun to watch. So now you're,you're producing all these um golf channel, you know, all thesetournaments and everything. So tell me like now your way into it, you've beenat the Golf Channel for how long I was there for 18 years, I left in 2013, soI was there for 18 years. So you've done all these 2013, what says, Okay,now it's time to move on and do something else or retire, what do youdo? Well, um, that's kind of a and again, it's a bit of a long and windingroad as as Paul McCartney would say, but I am, we lost my parents, my daddied in 22007 and my mom a little a little more than a year later, thanks.And you know, we were my wife, my current wife, Sarah and I were over,you know, we were doing what, what you do when your, when your parents passaway, we we were over uh going through their stuff and figuring out, you know,what was there to keep, what was there and not to keep what, you know, whatyou were going to do and we came across...

...a couple of boxes in the closet thathad, you know, all this memorabilia basically from my dad and mom, my dadand mom's career and my dad's career in tv and you know, letters frompresidents of television networks and presidents of the United States and andhis, you know, Nevada Broadcasting Hall of Fame, big, it was like this bigmarble thing that when he was inducted into Nevada Broadcasting Hall of Fameand Um you know that he was the head of the broadcasting committee of the 1960swhen early Squaw Valley and all these things and my wife looking and you know,she was unfortunately one of my greatest regrets is that she didn't geta chance to get to really know my parents as well as I would have hopedshe would have. But um she looked at me and she said, you know, don't let thisbe your kids when you're gone going through a box and saying, oh my God dadwon an Emmy and dad helped start to television networks and he knew TigerWoods and he did this, that and the other thing he she said, start writingdown some of the stories about your career um in a journal and you know, soyou can leave it for them. So they'll have something to, you know, to kind oflook back and see what you did, and so I started doing that, and I got about athird of the way into it and telling a bunch of these stories and I thought,you know, This could be a book. So, you know, then I approached a little bitdifferently and started writing it like it was a book and that I finished thatin 2013. Um we published it And uh there were some things in there thatthe golf channel, I was at the time working freelance for golf channel,doing 10 or 12 events a year. Um you know, that that whole dynamic changedwhen when Comcast and NBC took over it as things do, you know, life changesand so they were, they weren't real happy with some of the things in thebook and we kind of decided to part ways and when that happened, I, youknow, I was a little, I was a little devastated, but at the same time Irealized it was probably, you know, it was it was the right time. So, um, youknow, we published the book and, and uh it got, you know, pretty good responseand people love the stories and, you know, they love them behind the scenesstuff, you know, especially with the start, I got networks, I mean, ESPN two,I was lucky enough to work with, you know, Stuart scott and Suzy kolber whenthey were starting out any, that was one of his first producers? And therewas, there was a long time when people didn't at ESPN didn't think Kenny Maynewas going to make it as a broadcaster and you know, he hung in there and gotbetter and better and so that was, that was a ton of fun, you know, helpingstart ESPN two and then moving on to the Golf channel where, you know,everybody in the world told me I was out of my mind to leave ESPN and gowork for a start up 24 7 Golf Network, you know, and nobody in the worldthought that thing was going to succeed and um you know, we, we turned theworld on its ear and and made the Golf channel work. And so there's a bunch ofstories about those early days and cover me Boys. I'm going in and, andthen I really, you know, kind of being in semi retirement um I also realizedthat I enjoyed writing the process of writing that book so much that I said,well I'm gonna try another one and this time I'm going to go to go to fictionand write a mystery. So so we wrote Big flies and it kind of has, you know, hasthat's a big cry, like where where do you get the inspiration? Like so bigflies, where do you get that thought probably it's just something you alwayswanted to write or is it just like a story that you've heard? Like how howdo you get to that point where you say okay this is fiction but this is thestory I want to right? Yeah, that's a good question. Um And I think for meyou know every every writer is different. But for me there's in allfive of the books I've written, we just we just sent them the latest one to thepublisher called Some girl. But in all five of the books I've written there isthere is some personal experience inside that I've taken obviously thatcover me by some I'm going in is actual stories that actually happened. Theother book have a little nugget of a personal experience that happened to methat I've kind of you know that seed has grown into a into a make believestory. Um because I was like I said I grew up in reno and I was there. Mydad's tv station reporters were at the airport in 1971 when db cooper hijackedthe plane in Seattle and that plane that he was supposed to be on waslanding in reno, It landed, he wasn't on it because he had jumped out of theplane with $200,000 somewhere over the Pacific Northwest and nobody evernobody ever found him again. So when I...

...was thinking about writing a mystery. Ithought what if you know a young man ah comes to realize after his fatherpasses away that his dad was D. B. Cooper. So big flies is that story ofthis guy? And the title comes from a balzac quote that you know, laws arelike spider webs. You know, the little the the little flies get caught and bigflies escape or something like that. So, so we wrote Big Yeah, came from that. So then do youknow somebody named Murphy, Murphy? I do not, but and and the folks that Iwas yelling at for my 18 years of golf channel, I actually didn't yell at himfor all 18 years, but the announcers who were on our team, um you know, Ihad, I had a number of Pet peeves as a producer, as you can imagine one ofthem, you know, don't ever be perfect, like it's a perfect shot. The onlyperfect shot is one of the goes in the hole. So you know, it's not that drivesme crazy when an answer is, you know, the guy had a tee shot, oh, that'sperfect. It's like it's perfectly placed or it's in a perfect position,but it's not perfect and you know, little little things that nagged at meand one of them was redundancies, you know, and so um as I was thinking of amystery, I thought, you know what, I want to have a little fun, I want tohave a little bit of fun with a book. So I won't come up with that with that a story that to see how many redundantphrases I can put between the covers. So, you know, phrases like unexpectedsurprise are completely filled or free gift. You know, the things that peoplesay all the time that you're like, redundant, you know, so, and and whobetter to be the detective than Murphy Murphy. So, you know, he he works forthe department of Redundancy department at the local cops stop. And he's also amystery that involves a band called serious crisis because that's alsoredundant. So, yeah, no, that's awesome. That's awesome. So it's just great thatyou get to go through these, right? And, and, and because, you know, people have asked melike, you should tell your story, you should write your story, you know, butI don't have that ability To put it down. I don't have the notes. Like,there's so many stories I remember, I wish I would have taken notes from mystory, you know, with all the seven teams and the 15 years of playingeverything that's happened to me. Um if that would have happened all to my wife,which kind of did, she could write, right? She's the writer, likeeverything I write, I say, hey, you fix this for me, right? Kind of how I do it.Um, but it's just great that you got, you had this incredible career insports in producing sports and being out there and then you get to take aturn and do something you probably really love to do. Yeah, it's beenamazing, I mean that kind of whole, reinventing yourself really does happenand uh you know, I've been incredibly fortunate that you know, I've had this,this, I had this wonderful career in television and now I'm able to dosomething that I really enjoy doing and uh you know, um my family and my wife,my kids are really supportive and and you know, you you don't, I never, you know, again, Inever started out thinking that I was going to write a book, you know, justkind of happened and then when I think kind of though I realized that even inmy entire career in television and you know, even in college, I was ajournalism major at the University of Data, so that was writing stories, itwas writing news copy, you know, when I started to create, you were creativewriting and muslim clark. So those are short stories, so, and then when Istarted my career in television, it was my job to write the what we call teases,which 30 to 45 seconds of copy that brought the broadcast on the air, youknow, Annika Sorenstam going for win number 72 and uh of those kinds of youhad, you had the right to tweet. Exactly, exactly, right. And you know,some of the best in the business, read my words or vin Scully and, and BrentMusburger, and you know, and I'd write features and I'd write little like wedo these 32nd things going to commercial, tell him a little wait, Igot stopped. So do those guys ever write their own beginnings, or is italways the producer director that it was, it depends on, it would depend onthe announcer. Um you know, vince, in my experience, I did a handful of skinsgames with vin Scully and I wrote all the copy, um I did a couple oftournaments with Brent Musburger, I wrote the copy for that to which hechanged, which was never, I never had a...

...problem with, I mean, that was um andthen there were guys like Grant Boone and Rich Lerner, um guys that I workwith the Golf channel, that that right there own that write their own stuff,so it just depends on, you know, it will kind of sit back and talk aboutmaybe in an idea or I'd write something and Rich would write something and thenwe go back and forth. But, you know, for a lot of my career, especially atESPN and ESPN golf, um I wrote all the copy for most of my Golf channel, um Iwrote all that, so I realized it's like I've been writing, you know, I've beenwriting 40 years, I mean, you know, so maybe I can write a book, the hardestpart with writing fiction is Um trying to remember what you said on page onebecause on page 200, it has to be that, you know, it has to make sense. It hasto be the same thing. It's not just like this happened, then this happened,then this happened. So right, right. All has to make sense going along. Sowho is the person? Okay. You've written your book you got your, yourpreliminary, you know, your script done for it. Who who do you give it to toread first? Um, well again, I've been, I have to, to folks in my life that Icount as uh, tremendous confidence and, and people that are really important tome. My youngest son who uh was a creative writing, um, and music majorat DePaul. He is my first line of defense. So whatever I write and I'llbe very honest with you, your kids are super on. Exactly, right. And so I'llsend him, I'll send him chapters. I'll send him, you know, here, what do youdo this? And then he'll be my first, my first line of defense. I'm pretty goodwith, you know, with grammar and with those kinds of things. I'm terribleupon information. I'm terrible at making sure that, you know, kind ofthat the, that the theme stays consistent throughout the whole thing.Uh, the other one is my mother in law who has read everything I've writtenand is another one that is brutally honest. Um, in fact with Cover Me Boys.Um, I would take her chapters and stories and basically she would be like,you know, my english teacher in fifth grade, like this big red line rightthrough everything. You can't, you can't tell this story. You know, youwill burn every bridge, you know that you've ever, if you ever want to, youknow, see the light of day in terms of, you know, friends in television again,you've got to not just like put that. I'm sure this was cathartic. I'm sureit felt good to write it. But now put it in the trash can you can't, you know,you can't tell. So there those are the two. And then I got to say the team atBeacon Publishing Group has been tremendous. So they're kind of my lastline of defense once it gets through jake and and my mother in law, then thefolks that Beacon taken and really put the fine fine tune it and put thefinishing touches on it. So if you had to tell somebody who always wanted towrite or didn't know they wanted to write, but had that part side of them,like for me that's not a side of what I want to do. Yeah, maybe. But how wouldyou give advice to somebody who wants to do that or wants to start, I guess,you know, it's hard to just, I feel self conscious and kind of like saying,you know, it kind of here's what you should do because everybody isdifferent and and experiences are different for everybody, but for me, Imean, I would just say just right, um you know, you don't know whether youcan or can't until you try and um you know, if you've got some stories inyour head and you think that they're, you know, worthy of putting pen topaper, then just do it. And the other thing I would say is read, um I'm avoracious reader. I love, I love, you know, guys like Michael Connelly andand Harlan Coben and that's kind of what I like to read. Um nelson de mille,you know, occasionally read a nonfiction, but I mostly like mysteriesand so you get like, you get a sense of how to tell a story by reading some ofthe great writers who write stories. So that's helped me a tremendous amount.You know, I would just say just do it and then have somebody that you cantrust read it Well. And I think writing today is a lot different, right? If youthink about our the way we are today with our phones and tick tock and ininstagram and everything that's quick with our social media is that that youhave to read To be able to learn how to tell a story, right? Because it can'tbe done in a 32nd paragraph or whatever, right? So, I I think you're exactlyspot on with that. Yeah. And I write everything down. I mean my first, myprocesses, everything gets written on a mole skin tablet with, you know, withthe pen, I write handwrite everything...

...and then I take that over to mycomputer. So that's kind of my first edit, I write it and then when I takeit over to my computer, that's when I kind of make the first set of changes.And but everything I've written is tend to paper, can you read your ownhandwriting? Like my handwriting is terrible. I have I still have badthoughts of the nuns that used to hit me with their yardstick when I hadterrible writing, right? I was outside the lines. I can barely read it. Like,luckily funny because when I first started writing, I had a piece ofadvice somebody gave me was take a pen and a pad of paper to bed becausesometimes you'll have like these things in the middle of the night, you'll wakeup with an idea and you can just reach over in the United Stand and and jot itdown. I did that for about three nights because I'd wake up in the morning andI I couldn't read. I had no idea what I had written down. It was just, it wasjust scribbles like hieroglyphics. So scribblings of a madman, right? Yeah.Look at somebody, you know, like for big flies or the Flower Girl Murder andtry and read a couple of chapters in my my handwriting. And I'm like, how did Iever get this transport to a computer? Great, well, A I and computers are verysmart, you know, they can read everything now. They can readeverything. So before we go here, keith tell our all of our fans and ourlisteners how they can find your books and a little bit more about MurphyMurphy before we go. Yeah, the books on amazon, you know, just you can googleor put a little bar keith herschel and author, they'll all come up also atkeith Hirschl and one word A I T H H I R S H L A N D dot com. They're allthere and at Beacon Publishing group dot com. And thanks for letting me dothat. But you know, Murphy, Murphy was a ton of fun too. Right? I mean, yeah,I set out with that. And it was funny because um when Beacon published CoverMe Boys, I'm going in um I was over the moon that you know, because I had selfpublished, you know the other two books and and Beacon came in and they had redCover Me Boys and they said we want to you know, we want to take you under ourwing and we want to we want to re release Cover Me Boys, I'm going in. Sowe did that. And um when I was writing Murphy Murphy, I spoke to bobby Collinswho's my my lead guy at Beacon and I said you know, is this something thatyou guys would be interested in? And you know, he kind of laughed, he saidit sounds really fun and sure send it along to us because you never know, Imean I'm not you know, I'm not Stephen King, I'm not like, you know, thepublisher is not like waiting with bated breath for my next book. So youknow, you don't know if there if it's going to be something that they like orsomething that they didn't like and You know, I really set out with MurphyMurphy just to have have you know, a couple of 250 pages of fun and to seeif you really write a story with the you know, the main theme being you know,how many redundant phrases I can get into this and and it turned out to be aton of fun. And right now I'm working on um we just I just sent Beacon mylatest which already said it's called Song Girl. And the idea for that was Iwanted to write a story initially about a person that has a traumatic accidentas a head injury has, you know, falls into a coma and when she wakes up, shecan only speak in song lyrics, can I write a book with that as the premiseum I found out legally that you can't use song lyrics in a book. So thatbecame but you can use song titles. So now she wakes up and she can only speakin song titles. Um So that books coming out in january and I just started onthe sequel to Murphy Murphy, which is uh now murph Murphy is involved withthe commission on cliches. So how many cliches? I can get into a book and tella story. Um and you know it's just it's a challenge and it's fun and um youknow I've gotten great, you know, great feedback people seem to really enjoy itand so I'm going to keep going. Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. I can'twait to see the next book, Song Girl and then we're gonna come out withanother Murphy Murphy, the cliche one, but this one is all about redundancy,so I love it, that he's in the redundancy department. So I appreciateyou joining me, keith, tell me a little bit about your story, I love hearinghow sports shaped your life and really help you get to where you are today. Sothank you for joining me on how to up with Gus really appreciate it. It'sbeen my pleasure guys, I really enjoyed it. Thanks a lot. Yeah, so hey everyonethat's another episode of huddle up with Gus. I thank you for joining me. Iwant to thank all of our friends. Uh Sounder FM 16 31 digital news and don'tforget to go to Vegas sports advantage where you can put in my code, huddle up,save 25% and uh hopefully win some money. Uh you know uh keith, thank you,it was a great story, I loved hearing everyone, loves hearing the backstories about, you know, ESPN the golf...

...channel, Everything we do, People lovehearing the locker room stories of what's happened before game. So keithgives us a great insight to everything that he's been through and you know,just about how no matter where you come from or what you do, sports has a bigrole in your life. Thank you keith and thank you to everyone for listening andwe'll see you next time on huddle up with Gus and that's a wrap sportsman,Thanks for joining in the fun at the 16 31 digital studios for another tohuddle up with Gus featuring 15 year NFL quarterback. Gus, Veron, huddle Upwith Gus is proudly produced by 1631 digital media and is available on applemusic.

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