Huddle Up with Gus
Huddle Up with Gus

Episode 154 · 3 months ago

Huddle up with Gus: Ian O'Connor

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Best selling sports author Ian O'Connor.

Welcome to what surely will be a doozy of a match up. Brian here. Sports Fans, whether your game is on the Gridiron, at the diamond or on the links, we can only say get up off your seats and get ready for some real action. Welcome to this week's huddle up with Gus. Fifteen year NFL quarterback gust far rat passion for sports has taken him on the field and behind the benches. Playing for seven NFL franchises with one hundred fourteen TD's under his belt, Gust knows who the players are and how the Games are one every day get to hang out with an Hennall quarterback up Oka, sports fans, from the decked out and plush sixteen forty one digital studios, it's kickoff time, so snap your Chin straps on and keep ready to huddle up with Gus. Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Huddle up with Gusts. I'm your host, fifteen year NFL quarterback Gust Farrat, and I want to welcome you to hud up with gusts podcast. You can check me out at hud up with gustscom or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. I want to thank some of our partners. Thirty one digital news MFN operators. These guys MFN, multiformat network. These guys are great. They do all my editing and producing for me, and Terry Schumann, who helps me get all my guests. So thank you to all them. I appreciate you and I really appreciate you hanging with me through all these three years of podcasting. been crazy. Today's guest. He's a writer, sports columnist for the New York Post. He's written a new book. As you can see, it's sitting here beside him, but I know O'Connor's my guest. You just wrote the New Book Coach k the rise and rain, so I wanted to ask you Ian rain is such a powerful word. Where what made you put rain in there? Well, it's I think he's been a king of sorts of college basketball for four decades and I think it's rare to see somebody stay at one school that long and be that successful. It's pretty staggering that it age seventy five guts. He still has a chance to win the national championship. I don't know if it's a great chance. His team this year looks good too. Very good to me, but not great. But it's just I don't know if we'll see a rain like that again in college basketball and given all the change in the sport now you have basically player free agency, I think it's it's going to be difficult for somebody to match that for forty two years, that level of success, to win nearly one hundred games, five national titles, twelve final fours and maybe counting. So that was the word that came to mind, I thought was appropriate for the title of the book, and so we went with it. Well, you know, to make you give all these stats and my mind, obviously because of football, goes to you know, people like Tom Brady, Bill Belichick, who wrote another book for called Bella check. But you know that have been in the business was for so long. You say these things will never be broken,...

...but before those guys that were records that they said never would be broken. So Hey, you can never say never. I think there's always somebody out there that I'll do it longer, but coach k and as long as he's done it. I mean it's pretty amazing. But let's get back to your story. So tell me a little bit. I knew you grew up in New Jersey. And so what was that then? What did you how did you fall in love with sports when YOU WERE GROWING UP IN JERSEY? Probably not a terribly profound story, I guess, and just having a big brother who loves sports and he passed that down to me. My father was not really a big sports guy. He grew up in New York key. He liked the New York giants baseball team and football team and but he was not really a passionate fan, I would say. So it was my brother Dan and it's interestingly enough, we attended a High School in New Jersey that's pretty famous for being the place where Vince Lambardi learned how to be a coach, really he. He coach football and basketball at St Cecilia's high school and Angwind, New Jersey, and I was on the one of my proud moments was being on the last Saint Acilian football team that made it to the State Championship game. And when Lombardi coach there in the s early s, they won the Mythical National High School Football Championship and they beat the beat the team in Brooklyn that Joe Pa Turno played for. And so that was a always a cool association for me to have attended St Cecilia and knowing that Lombardi that that was the only place he had been a head coach before the Green Bay packers and then amazing. Yeah, it is all right. He was a great assistant with the giants, He was at Fordham, but really before his one year with the with Washington before he tragically died, the only two places he had ever been a head coach where the packers and St Cecilia. So we were pretty proud of that. What was so what was that tradition like it St Cecilia, because obviously he started something. Well, it was like practice is pretty tough. I mean you got to remember some of that laid going through two days and all those types of things. What do you remember specifically that the day did, because you think the coaches would always have I mean you got a guy like Vincebarti. You're always quoting him, you're always saying something about them. Was that look? Was it like that for you? It was. It was, and obviously you played in the NFL for fifteen years, so I'm talking about football here. I'd much, much lower level, but I think you'll understand that there's no matter what level you play football at, there's certain things that you remember, like whenever, whenever the grass is cut, like for the first time in a summer, and you smell that cut grass, I always think of triple sessions and double sessions in high school. And I only played one year of Small College Football, division three, but there are certain things that the smell of that cut grass and if I pass a field and I see a team practicing, I immediately flash back to double sessions and triple sessions and and back then. What it makes...

...is me is I'll watch an NFL practice now and I actually think that our practices in high school were tougher, very there's very little hitting this, there's very little running. I see a lot of standing around. I have to say I'm always shocked an NFL practice day because coaches have to save their players for Sunday. And I'll never forget being on the field at the endacy champship game. Two Thousand and eleven giants, forty niners in the rain at candlestick. So I got on the field for the last fourth quarter that game went and toot and the speed and violence of the NFL game and certainly you lived it and I didn't, but I thought I knew a little bit about football just having played for seven I played for since from seventh grade through one year of Small College, and it was unbelievable the speed the violence of it and I knew nothing. So I have a great respect and appreciation for people who did it at that level and but I love football. Obviously I'd love to see it somehow become safer through equipment advances. I still don't quite understand why how much technology can't catch up to to the speed of the game and to try to offset the number of concussions we see. So but I've always loved football and I think that it's it taught me a lot of life lessons really, primarily just don't quit. There are plenty of times when, since I went to a small Catholic high school, we would practice as freshman with the varsity and just physically get beaten up every day by seniors and there are a lot of days I just wanted to hang it up and go hang out with my friends after school and my brother really wouldn't let me do that. So I'm glad that happened and I stayed with it for those four years and by the time you're a senior, obviously you're on the other side of it. So so football taught me a lot of life lessons that I still really value today. Yeah, so when did the writing side of it come in for you? Right, so you have the sports background. You loved football. I'm sure you love basketball and baseball as well. Growing up around New York, I mean there's so many different sports. You can watch hockey, everything is there. So when did the writing side kicking for you to say, you know what, I'm really good at this and I like doing this. I was never good in math. I was okay in math, gosh, but I was always better in English and writing. Well, why did they make us learn Algebra? Who actually we? Yeah, and I don't know the answer that question, and I'm sure it mayor's they made you take finite math, like what is that? I don't remember taking finite math. I stayed away from that as much as I could. So actually, the when I was a freshman at Marist, I had a faculty advisor, who or he was. He was actually an advisor to the student newspaper too. So the first time I sat down with him he's now a lawyer at the New York Times and he's actually he actually wrote the famous letter to Donald Trump from the New York time some years ago after trump sued the times and his letter...

...went viral. But his name was David mccraw and he said so, what are you get what do you like to do? And I said well, I love sports, you know, but my goal is to be the next Roger staback. That's not going to happen. He was my idol growing up. Was a Dallas cowboys fanatic. And wait, wait, how'd you get to be a Dallas cowboys from the fanatic when the it sounds like the giants were the team in your household. Yeah, so the giants were, but they were terrible and the jets were terrible too. So and as you as you might know, back then there was no such thing as cable TV, so you had CBS, NBC, ABC and that was it. So you would get one national game every Sunday and you'd have Monday night football, the big thing growing up. Monday night football was the halftime highlights outside of Howard cosell and Meredith and and and company. It was, it was, it was, it was amazing that you had a whole generation of fans waiting to see the halftime highlights because we didn't see the Games around the league. We only saw the giants in the jets and but the one national game on Sundays was usually the Dallas cowboys, the star in the helmet, Tom Landry with the hat, but I loved Roger Stallback and he was really the first athletic quarterback who was and landry hated it, but he would move around and he was exciting the watch. So I became a cowboys fan because the giants were terrible and the cowboys were in my living room almost every Sunday. You and and so. So I'm college. I had a faculty advisor who said what do you like to do? I said, well, I love sports and I'm pretty good in my English courses, and he said why don't you put the two together and try writing for the student newspaper? So I did that and one thing led to another and it just started a career that I've loved really for for the better part of four decades. You know, the story is so similar to many authors I've had on even writers and that have you know, Mike Silver Peter King, all those guys that have written for sports, you know where they say. You know, I love sports growing up, I played as much as I could, but then I get to college and I got to figure out what I'm you know, it's just it's kind of like your story. Let's figure it out and then you go from there. Did you go anywhere after Maris or did you go right into work, like an internship somewhere? Yeah, I had. I got a what they call a fellowship. It was a glorified internship through the pollium fellowship program. They picked twenty young aspiring journalists around the country. Ten went to Indianapolis to work for the Indianapolis Star for three months. Ten went to Phoenix to work for the two newspapers out there. So I went to Arizona. It was a hundred and ten degrees in the shade every day. I had this beat up seventy six orange pinto that had no air conditioning and I'll never forget parking it in the sun and going inside and working and coming out six hours later and forgetting that it was sitting in a hut literally a hundred and ten to...

...threes in the sun all day and I grabbed the handle, my hand almost burned off. Yeah, never forget that. But yeah, that was a three month program and my first pseudo job, and so they gave me a lot of assignments. Going out the Phoenix Suns we camp. Did you drive the Pinto across country? I did. Yeah, it took me. I did about six hundred miles. That do eight hundred miles a day. I'm trying to remember how long it took me to get there. I did it and I think four days. So what did you listen to? Because it had would have in it. I think I listened to springsteen cassettes. Yeah, I called correctly, maybe a little Elton John. So yeah, and it got me. It got me there barely. Now on the way back it broke down in Tennessee, and so this is late August, maybe early September, and it just couldn't make it back. I had a hundred thousand miles on it. was his orange Pinto and it broke down in Tennessee and I got to a gas station and I forget what was wrong with it, but they were there was more than one thing wrong with it. So the guy in the gas station, I think he saw I was a Yankee from from New Jersey and he charged he overcharged me. I know that. I waited there for about five hours and whatever he fixed I paid a lot of money for and then I was on my way and made it back, so that was quite an adventure. Yeah, Hey, everyone, thanks for listening. This is Gust frob with huddle up with guss. You can check me out wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. We're talking with Ian O'Connor. Ian wrote a new book, You know, titled Coach K But he and you've written a lot of other books. You're given us your history, on your past, and I think it's so important because the way we remember things and then, as a writer, you're going to write about somebody, somebody else's memories and stories, and so I listen to a show where you were talking about coach Belot check when you wrote his book. But he would tell people don't don't talk to you and Connor, don't tell him the stories because you know whether those are his stories and he wants to tell him, but you're trying to find out those stories for your book. So when you when you do that and you find those roadblocks, how you get through those robust, because I'm thinking like my Pinto broke down in Tennessee, how am I going to get home? It was sort of like that, and I guess Belichick put so many obstacles in my way I felt like one of his players like it made me better, made me more resourceful, made me work harder, and he asked a lot of people not to talk to me and not all of them listen to him, frankly, and some dad they just didn't want to be quoted by name. But they wanted those human stories about him told because they had seen his capacity for kindness and just being human away from the facility, away from press conferences at the stadium, and he played a role for a reason. His goal in every press conference was to give out as little information as possible because he saw coaches around a leak, make that...

...steak where belichick would learn things about their preparation and game plan going into Sunday's game and he would use that against them. So and he had a reason to run his program the way he did and to project a certain image to the public. But away from the stadium and his job he had a human side and I think some of his friends just said despite his wishes, I'm going to tell some of these stories and anecdotes to humanize them. And afterward, when the book came out, of course bill never said anything about it to me anyway, but his friends, some of them did. And John Bon Jovi, who had been a longtime friend, believe it or not, he he saw me at the Super Bowl and he told me that he read the book and he thought it was very fair. He thought he'd thanked me for that and he said a lot of bills friends feel the same way. Then he asked me, he said, did bill say anything to you about it? And I said, John, you've known him for forty years. You really think belichick's going to come up to me and pat me on the back for an unauthorized book on his life? I don't think so. So I got to kick out of that. He laughed and but my goal is always fairness. That's the most important thing, to be fair to the people I'm chronicling and delivering, hopefully, a defining portrait of them. And and I think I pulled it off. Yeah, no, I think you did too. So the first book you wrote was that the Arnold and Jack. No, actually it was called it was called the jump and okay, it is the high school book right wrecked. Yeah, and so you you're writing column and stories for for, you know, papers and things like that. Then what was the influence to write your first book? Did you it something you always wanted to do? Yeah, and I should have started earlier. It took me a long time to get to that. First books a herald was I was about thirty nine and I just I knew. I had heard so many story about how difficult it was, particularly if you have a day job, so you're really working to full time jobs. Yeah, and so it took me a while to finally take the leap and then I did. And what I decided to do. Back then, high school basketball players could jump straight to the NBA. Yeah, was profile that process really and there was a kid named Sebastian telfare, Stephan Marbury's cousin, who was a legend of phenom and Coney Island, Brooklyn, and he was only five hundred and eleven six feet and he was considered one of the two or three best high school players in the country. I thought he had a fascinating name and backstory. His goal was to get his family out of the projects and make the jump from high school to the NBA. So I spent the year with them and his high school team in Brooklyn Lincoln High and it was really it was it was obviously about his life, but it was really more a book on the process where you had agents, sneaker companies, big Time Division One recruiters, NBA general managers and scouts and executives all involved in the process and just how crazy that was his senior year for him to navigate all of that at...

...and it was a fascinating roller coaster journey and it was one thing about it. Now later my next book was on Arnie and Jack Palmer and Nicholas. Their careers were already over. So it was part of history. This was happening in real time and anything could have happened. You almost had a serious injury in the middle of that season which probably could have killed the book. So that was quite a ride and I learned a lot. I really taught myself how to write a book in that process and and I think it's set up the books to come. Yeah, that had to be an amazing like before, because you're how long typically were your articles? You know when you're writing and putting something. You're right, they get edited down, they have to fit in a certain space. And now you're writing a book that's I can put whatever I want in this. Yeah, that's a good question, guss. And so the average column I was working for the New York Daily News and then for Canette newspapers in USA, today in New York, and so the average column would be, say, eight hundred fifty two, nine hundred words. Obviously a book you're talking about more than a hundred thousand words. And so as you're describing scenes in a book, it was almost liberating because you can let it breathe and where if you're if you're limited to eight hundred and seventy five words, you have to get to the point quickly and you need to. You can't let too much breathe in that column. You have to you have to get to the point and tell the reader what you want to say and get out. So so that was it actually was a I enjoyed that part of it. I like storytelling and I liked letting some of those anecdotes and stories breathed and have space. And so the one the one regret maybe with the BELCHIC book was I think it was too long. In retrospect, my Sheshefsky Book, Coach K book, is shorter the Belichick book. I initially handed it like two hundred forty thou words. We cut it down about two hundred and thirteen thousand and probably should have come down about a hundred eighty five hundred and ninety. Coach K is about a hundred fifty three thousand words and that that to me, is about right. But the bell of chick challenge was the greatest challenge of my career. Most of my books I spent to two and a half years. Belichick was three, three and a half and I really felt like I was standing at the base of Mount Everest looking straight up at the start of that process. So where do you even begin? Right, yeah, and and obviously these people have lived very full, rich, great American lives. So it was a challenge to to keep it at a certain length. But belichick, in retrospect, if I had to do one thing over, I would have made it shorter. Well, that's what I was just going to ask you. So you've written five books and then every book you go through, I mean you're writing about prolific people right the captain are Arnie and Jack, and you know, these are people that are the tops of their sports and what they're doing. And I was going to ask you what did you learn from each book that you...

...wrote that you wanted to do in the next book? Well, first, just like you as a quarterback, you try to learn from every game and get better the next game. So I was just trying to get better with each book and like with Belichick. Okay, I thought it was. If I'm being honest, and I am asking every everybody else to be honest with me, I have to be honest with myself. I think it was too long. So I made sure Sheshefsky wasn't as long. And so I think what I what I've learned about these figures is just what made them great, say, starting with with jeter, going through Bello, chicken and Sheshevsky, their work ethic and attention to detail and treating every day like it's game seven of the world series, whether it's the offseason, regular season or postseason, is is a common theme I see in there in their careers. It's that consistency of approach every single day and I think people asked why to Tom Brady leave New England and you saw him go to a coach who had the opposite approach. Bruce AIAN's motto is winner lose, we booze. That's not exactly bill belichick's philosophy on football or life. So I think after twenty years of every day being like game seven of the world series, it caught up to Brady. It's a credit to him and to bellot chick that they could last that long. As amazing you can have an all time great at both of those positions, probably the best ever to do it at coach and quarterback. They actually stayed together for twenty years. It's pretty amazing. But I think the everyday urgency, whether it was mini camp in May or a playoff game. After twenty years of that, Brady needed a break and Aryans represented that break with a hey, Tom let's let's try to sneak in nine holes after practice and grab a beer if we can. I think he needed that for a couple of years. Yeah. So. So I found that to be a common thread in the figures these iconic great players and coaches that I've chronicled in these books. You see that a lot about Kobe. You know a lot of the little like with information you see on on whether it's social media or you're watching something else on Kobe, it was always you see a player going well, you know, I was going to go to the gym at like five o'clock and I get there and Kobe's already got ice on his knees and he's already finished his work out, right, and that's I think that's the mentality that that these great people always have, whether you're a coach, a player, whatever it is in life, right, or are you're an author, right, it's just going the next level. One one, one. One question I had for you was, I don't know why this popped in my mind, but last year I had a local guy that I'm a friend with and and he's Democrat, and I was trying to go knocked door to door for him and just, you know, just help him out, and he's a friend of mine, and I found it like very tough, like I couldn't do it, like I didn't know who's behind that door, I didn't know who I was talking to. So for you, as an author, you're going through until Talt, you know, he talks about how you were people that he played for coach and people that were friends with them, and every book is like deep when you're cold calling or trying to figure...

...out who to talk to, is that a nerve is that more nerve racking than anything because you don't know what they're going to say? Well, I it used to be when I was younger. Now, so I'm fifty seven. I've been doing this for thirty six years. Not as much anymore. Sometimes, occasionally you'll be reaching out to somebody. I find the most difficult thing, and by the way, I was knocking on doors when I was a kid, delivering newspapers, looking to collect my weekly feet and people were hiding behind those doors. I knew they were in there. Every Thursday night I would go we called collecting. There were people who just didn't want to pay their subscription fee, and I'm a twelve year old kid knocking on doors. So that was nerve racking. I remember back then. Sometimes you got yelled at and get off my porch and all that stuff. Yeah, it was a different day back then. There you weren't calling anybody, there's no text, you had to go to knock right on the door. Absolutely right. So I'll say this. The one time I am really I forced myself to make these phone calls because you have to. Is When people have suffered tragic circumstances in their families, the loss of a loved one, and particularly when it's fairly recent. I really have to coach myself before I make that call. Okay, how would I feel if I were this wife whose husband was just killed in a tragic car accident and I'm calling to interview her about his life? And this happened two weeks ago, but the circumstances dictate that I need to try to reach her now for say, a newspaper column or even a book? And I've been in that situation a lot, even, frankly, victims of suicide and calling relatives, and that's really when it hits home and I have to put myself in the shoes of that person I'm calling and be really gentle in the initial call and approach and be human and understand if these people scream at you, if they hang up on you, just understand that's part of it. You might do the same thing to them if they called you, and that under those circumstances. So, though, that's when it really like. I wish I didn't have this job. To be honest with you, I do not want to call this person at this moment, but it's my job and I do it. I just try to be as human as possible in those moments. Yeah, you have to definitely have to have a lot of empathy when you call somebody going through those things. That's the same way with me. My Dad was one of fifteen kids, right, and so I've been to a lot of funerals and I still don't know the right things to say sometimes when somebody passes. You know from being an older boy, when I was a kid to go. I'm still going to funerals of my from my guts side of the family. You don't always know. It's just empathetic. I'm sorry, you know, and and that's all you can do. And try to listen as much as you can, because usually they want to say something, right, they usually want to talk. Yeah, and when I try to, if I get to, and usually I do, I can get to. Here's why I'm calling. I...

...want to honor this person who just died and tell me. I want to make sure people remember this person. Let's talk about his or her life and the contributions they made and and I had a woman once her her husband was a coach, college football coach, and he committed suicide and or or now I'm sorry I should say died of suicide. And so she was at first she said, well, you know, I don't know you. I'd love to talk about them. But so she said, well, let me let me talk to you off the record. So I said okay, fine. So we did. We had a long conversation. It was over an hour and at the end she said I'll tell you what it's. Everything I just said is on the record. So you write the story. I trust you to do it the right way, based on the questions you've asked me here, and send me the story and we'll see. So I did. I wrote it, I sent it to her and about two weeks later I came back from dinner with my wife and my message light was blinking and I hit the button and it was her voice and I immediately hit stopped and I just asked my wife to leave the room, you know, because I just wanted to I didn't want her to be there in case this was not the kind of message I wanted to hear and she felt I violated her trust or didn't honor it. So she left and I sort of gathered myself because this woman had just put a lot of us and a stranger, and I played the message and thankfully it was thank you for for honoring my faith I put in you and it was a great piece and you, you portrayed my words and thoughts and feelings exactly as I expressed into you. Thank you for doing that. And I think she actually said you restored my faith in humanity for hanging up. So that was one of the great messages I've ever received and so know that's really good. That's what it's all about, when you get those kind of things, that that makes you feel like your work, I got to keep going. This is really good at what I'm doing and I'm honoring these people. So that's that is awesome. So in your books that you wrote and your last one about coach Katie, feel like you've done that with all of these books that you've written. Yeah, and it is. It is a great challenge. You talk to hundreds of people and at the end you're left with a lot of information, a lot of stories and anecdotes, gusting. You try to weave it together to tell the tale of this person's life. Now, listen, and I many people at Duke University. I said an advance you're not going to love every paragraph in this book because I cover the flaws and the mistakes it that has to be covered and an honest account of somebody's life. And so you prepare them for that and frankly, I went down to Duke months before publication and laid out all all of what would be the perceived negatives in the book, so they knew in advance in case they wanted to comment or Mike wanted to comment honor off the record. I think that's pretty important that you have to give the subject of your unauthorized by Agraphy the opportunity to understand. Okay, if I get something wrong with...

...a positive, you're not going to care. If I get something wrong with the negative, a perceived negative, you're going to care. So right, here's, here's what they are. Let's talk about it. So I did give I do give that opportunity to everyone I write a book about. So you don't think that coach k would give you a profanity lace sideline rant for the book? Well, heard you do a podcast where you said you said behind him and you couldn't believe that. Yeah, but yeah, my dad would have been in heaven like that's I learned my first swear word when I was like six and I was like, what's that mean? He is you'll find out some day. Yeah, right, and I cursed too, so I wasn't offended by it, but I was entertained and surprised. I just for two I sat behind him in one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine at an NCAA tournament game for the first time and I was blown away by the nature of their profanity and just how relentless it was. And then I found out all the people, yeah, that's that's how coach K is in the game, and I said to myself there are a lot of people, a lot of grandmothers in America who love them. If they ever sat near him, I don't know if they love him anymore, and so it is interesting that that's a part of his approach that usually surprises a lot of people. And you know, we didn't get into a lot. I know you've talked a lot about his relationship with Bobby Knight, but I feel like when he went to West Point it was in the military. There's no words that aren't out right there. They're out there. Bobby Knight was a guy was going to say whatever he wanted to say. Do you think a little bit of that comes from coach night? I know that. You know swearing is something that we kind of learned from our parents and things, but Bobby Knight, as much as they don't have relationship anymore, didn't that that was probably something that he heard a lot of from one of his mentors. Oh, absolutely. Not only that, obviously Bob Knight and the way he coached it army, but upper classmen at West Point when Mike was a pleab and and and then a sophomore, I just getting verbally berated if you if you did something at West Point that was against the code, even a minor thing like when you walk at West Point you're supposed to square off all of your turns in a stairwell, or if you're walking toward class and and make every turn at a ninety degree angle, and if you cut it off a little sloppily, you get braided by an upper classman right in your face screaming really tough degrading things. So that's how Mike was raised. That's how yeah, he was taught in basketball and and really in college or at West Point in at the Military Academy. That's how you lead, that's how you inspire people. So I do think that shaped him, and in a pretty profound way. I would say he probably did that everywhere except when he coached in the Olympics because grown men, probably from the NBA, you know, those guys aren't aren't being coached like that. You can't scream profan. Yeah, Ron James and Kobe Bryant and Jason Kidd and Chris Paul. Now he wasn't doing that, but couple do players told me when he got back from Beijing and Ohad he became more player friendly and that just being around the the some of the greatest...

...players to ever play it and it changed him a little bit. At Duke so he was still screaming, yell and curse. But Brian Zoobach was the guy in the two thousand and ten national chancesion game against Butler who he told to miss that free throw at the end intentionally he was wanted to. Told me that that coach k change a little bit after the Olympics. But that goes to show that we all can change so I know you got to go, but I appreciate you spending time with me. So tell us all where we can find your book and where we can follow you well. Thanks very much for having me. Gust and Amazoncom is a great place to get the book. Bookstores everywhere, and I'll keep it to that. I just want people to get a chance to read the book. And on arguably, I think, the greatest college basketball coach of all time. I would put him slightly ahead of John Wooden on that Mount Rushmore of college basketball coaches. Well, he's did it. He's done it since one thousand nine hundred and eighty. So it's an amazing feat. I mean probably that's when he went to Duke. He was doing it before that. But Anyway, I appreciate you. I and you can check in out at Ian. Is it O'Connor Don? Is that your website? Underscore? You will? Yeah, honnorcom. Yeah, that's IAN underscore. O'Connor is is my twitter handle and Ian O'connor without the apostrophe is my websitecom. Right. Well, you may. He made it hard for me. I mean I've been hitting ahead a lots of those. Those and underscores really get tough for me. Yeah, I know, I appreciate you in so check them out on Amazoncom. Go get his new book. Read about coach k. you're going to find out a lot of amazing information that in digs out from friends, family, players and people that have been around coach k for more than forty years. So, Ian, thank you so much for joining me on huddle up with gusts. I was my pleasure, Gust thank you all right, everyone. That's another episode of huddle up with Gust appreciate you joining us. CHECK US out at huddle up with gustscom or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast, thanks to my guys that sound or dot FM that hosts my podcast. Those guys are doing wonderful, just great new partnership with I heart radio, so go get him sounder. You guys are doing awesome. So thanks everyone. Thanks Ian, and we'll see you next week on huddle up with gusts. That's a wrap sports. Thanks for joining in the fun. Studios for a number puddle up with gusts featuring fifteen year NFL quarterback just arrock. Huddle up with gusts is probably produced by one thousand six hundred and thirty one digital media and disavailable all Happy Music.

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