Huddle Up with Gus
Huddle Up with Gus

Episode · 2 years ago

Dr. Sarah Homitsky, MD

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Sarah C Homitsky, MD Dr. Homitsky is a graduate of Michigan State University College of Human Medicine in East Lansing, Mich. Her postgraduate training consisted of a triple board residency at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center in Pittsburgh, Pa., where she served as chief resident. During her residency she received extensive clinical experience with adolescent perinatal and postpartum psychiatry, providing psychiatric services for medically complex children, and women with opioid use disorder. She is a published first author of articles in medical publications, and has presented at annual meetings, medical conferences, and in academic settings. She has lectured extensively on topics such as perinatal depression and outcomes for children born to adolescent mothers. She has had many roles in community activities, including volunteer and court- appointed advocacy. Sarah talks to my wife Ann and I about her life and how sports played a role when she was younger. Her college days and her transition afterwards to find her passion in helping others.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Welcome to our podcast huddle up with gusts, where we talked to guests about how sports help shape their life. I'm your host, former NFL quarterback gusts fraud, and I'm joined by my longtime friend and coast Dave Hagar. We are a RADIOCOM original podcast and you can find it's on the new RADIOCOM APP or anywhere you listen to your favorite podcast. Now let's get in the huddle. We have a special edition of Huddle up with gusts today. Joining me in the huddle is my great and wonderful wife and fat. She is sitting in for my cohost Dave Hagar. We are doing an incredible interview together with someone amazing that she works with, Dr Sarah Hamitsky. Dr Mitsky is a graduate of Michigan State University College of Human Medicine in East lancing. Her Post Postgraduate Training consisted of triple board residency at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center in Pittsburgh, PA, where she served as a chief resident. Sarah now runs the Alexis joy the Achille Center for Parenato Mental Health at Westpenn Hospital, where she works with my lovely wife and and together they are trying to help women with Parinado and postpartum issues. Sarah, we're going to dig into your past and maybe a little bit of your psychiatry about how sports shaped your life, and I'm pretty excited to have you guys in the huddle with me. Thanks for happy to be here. Happy to be here, so you know to do it. Schwetive Balls, reference to early, too early. No alcoholi you're either. Yeah, anyway. So, Sarah, I've told you before what our shows all about, and it's really about how sports kind of shaped your life right, and how it kind of gave you some passion and really helped you understand how this crazy world worked, and I think that sports puts a lot of that into perspective. Just like Annie was a cheerleader, a gymnast, a tennis player. Necessary. Yeah, it really is. Whip you old double champion tennis. Just putting that out there. What's right? Not about that? Actually, I'm going to start with you in the huddle where I start with everyone. What was that spark, that influence when you were a kid that really put a passion in your sports? I think I was obsessed from like womb, like literally, I was a tomboy through and through. From the beginning it was like I remember when I was eight, probably younger than that, and I would just get off the bus in the first thing I would do was like bolt to my friend's house and we would just play outside until we were forced to come inside. And it was like everything from like, you know, tag football to home run Derby, you know, and you just didn't care. You were just outside. Yeah, all the time. So we asked this of every one of our guests and probably fifty percent of them say they played this game and they love it. Is Wolfe Paul, did you play Wolfball? Yeah, Hey, yeah, it's great with football. Yeah, I'm run Derby all of it. Yeah, so, even like Lee Stiberg's and I can remember playing wolfball in La and going on the streets. We just pick up games and you just take a bat and will football and it never breaks. You just have a blast. It's so true, except true. And so did you have siblings that you grew up with? A Do, yeah, two brothers, two sisters. So who was like the big competitor, like you wanted to be older brother old yeah, for sure. He was the other athlete. I don't think my older sister would care if I said this, but she is not. It's not her for and neither is my younger brother. My younger sister did, but she was a lot younger than us, and so she played volleyball a Brandis and you know, I think that that was a big part of her, yeah, identity as well. But my younger brother probably put me, took me under his wing more than he probably wanted to. Really think it was very competitive and everything. Yeah, well, we yeah, I think he appreciated the fact that I could kind of keep up with them a little bit. You know, from basketball. How many racist did you beat him? I know you guys had to start at once. Bott my gosh. You know, what we used to have is one of those like handmade derby you know they were it was like four wheels and there was a wooden plank in the front and a cord and you would just like turn it to steer, Oh yeah, down a hill, and we would race each other all the time. I don't I don't recall every winning, but I recall a lot of injuries. Have a lot of screen. He's a lot of stars. You know, if you're outside playing all the time and you're in sports, you're going to have those steps of injuries. I had them, I had tons of them. I still have scars like in twenty out of that stuff. Yeah, for sure. Sure, here's were jumping off porches, though sometimes that did happen. All joking asides, this is what we were talking about earlier, though, like that is a huge lesson learned in sports. Like yes, loss, injury and picking yourself back up totally something that's missing today. Every one of our guests always talk about how we...

...didn't have games, we didn't have TV, we went outside seven yeah, and yeah, I get knocked down, you get back up and you learn how to push through it correct yes, I'm sure you had some of those times like that. Absolutely, and that's an incredibly important lesson for women. Yes, for sure. A lot of life lessons are not there on the court, in the field neighbors, especially when your big brothers trying to push you down. It's right, that's right. Sure, yeah, choice, but the play. So what were your parents like? Were they very supportive you when you're growing up and sports? Oh, yeah, absolutely, my dad was one of the you know, like he was. He was a minister and still isn't minister and he every Sunday afternoon was like our time. You know, he would get home from church and we would go out and play catch, like on the street, or we play football on the street, and sports was a huge part of his life. He played baseball for decades, so I think he had an appreciation for it and, Um, you know, he was like that dad that would always brag about me, you know, like the girl playing on the boys baseball team, and I sucked right. I mean like I don't think I ever I've I saw right field a lot, you know. Yeah, it was always like the last batter. Gave, gave, never liked right. Yeah, right, you know, and my dad would still be like, oh, but she's playing with the boys, you know, like that's like a big deal. Yeah, no, but I mean I was, and then I played so off on that was that was those are probably the best years. I mean you just had these close group of friends that were so loyal. Yeah, and you did everything together. Yeah, just did everything. That was good. Was that your first what was the first organized sport that you play? Yeah, it was. It's probably baseball. M Yeah, yeah, basically right shielder like of it. Inter know, what I learned. Do you know what I learned? I learned a very important life lesson, which was everyone on the team has different strengths and different reasons for being there. True, and those on the bench can provide a lot of positive influence on the team. I agree, which is very true. That is an accurate what of encouragement comes in French. Yeah, so you're learning all these things, you're going into high school. What was a big part of you know, that first experience of high school? There's so many sports you get to choose from, get to be on different teams. What did you really like? What was your sport that you wanted to be part of? I had a really hard time choosing what to do because there was a lot of overlap. You know, I ended up playing tennis and because it was a fall sport for girls, and then moved into basketball in the winter and then in the spring I ran track and I stopped. I think that transition to softball, like fast pitch, I just I just didn't invest. I think I had other sports I wanted to play and I didn't want to invest solely in one. So I yeah, and I've that is still true for me today. I don't. I like to kind of dabble in different things and I didn't want to give up anything, any particular sport, so I just kind of did what I could through every season. You know, that's kind of funny. That's how I am too. Yeah, because I played every sport and didn't want to give one up. I should have just stayed in football. Yeah, and then I go play basketball in my senior year and end up blown both ankles and just like why? Don't even come out for the team. But then you got to finish your you know, taught for a young kid, wone ankle. Just twist your absolute when you hear about very often. You had to work hard to do those both ankles. Well, I didn't do it the same time. I did one that I came back and did the other one. Honestly, that but picture of you hated doing both at the same time as something that's going to stick up there for a little while. I don't know what that would be very unathletic like to do both the same time. And you said that. Not Me, not say an word. No judgment. Okay, I appreciated no judgment on but you know, but it's really good point to Sarah makes there's so many things that you get to make a decision about and your parents are pushing you for academics all the time. I was your great so what were you okay of Student? Were you in high school? I think, like most women athletes, I was I did pretty well. You know, I think. I don't really. I think I was eleven in my class out of about four hundred and eighty cheese. So I my God, you at Seneca and that was like big. Now it's like even, I mean twice the size of that. Probably, no, I don't know what the class sizes, but I definitely, you know, it was pretty motivated when it came to studies. I saw that as a would say, like a way out, but as an opportunity to get somewhere different. And it worked for me, because then I got...

...into a great college in Massachusetts and I got to see another whole experience that just wasn't possible in western Pennsylvania and I grew tremendously in college and I got to play sports because it was, you know, division three. Yeah, so I could play basketball there. And you went Smith. Yeah, so great. So you're in high school and you're you're obviously into sports, you're doing unbelievably well in academics. Then all of a sudden all these college choices come up. How do you make that choice? Like what were what was that decision like for you, because so many people have a really hard time with that. I was one of those people. I think that I set foot on Smith's campus and I knew that was where I was supposed to be. How many colleges to do visit? Probably like twenty. Well, that's a lot. Yeah, you know, and my older siblings went through it before. So I think I kind of knew, yeah, you know, some of the schools that were available and I knew I wanted to do liberal arts. I would you know. I wasn't. I wanted a smaller size school because I value that intimacy that like. Yeah, you know, and I think I wanted to play sports. So I didn't. I didn't look at major, large universities and there was something about the town of Northampton that just was it felt right. So for me I knew I was going to get a great education. It was the transition was tough from here to there from yeah, real tough, hard leaving high school. Yeah, those were my golden years. So like you have a lot of friends, you mean like people. You enjoy that time. I did enjoy high school. I don't know that I was. I mean part of the reason I like Smith was because of the distance. Like I, you know, I was ready to see something other than Western pay you know, as a kid, with my dad's job, we moved every three years to like a different city in western Pia and I didn't I had close friends where we were, but then we would move and so it was like my family was my unit and I think I just was kind of looking for like some stability and a chance to really build some continuity in terms of friendship. So did your siblings go to did they all go to college? They did. Yes, were they like local schools or did to go far away? Ohio, in state, and then my sister went to Massachusetts where. Yeah, so did like our daughter Abbey, you know, when she went to have aford. Sports helped her get into that school because it's a very high academic school, even though she was very smart in high school. But Sports, you know, it's all super competitive, right. Yeah. So I'm sure having all that, I mean that was a big part for you to get absolutely was sports, absolutely it was. Yeah, and it isn't even just like excelling at sports. It's just seeing that you participated in a team activity, that you were a captain, that you were you have leadership potential, that your peers valued you or, you know, valued your character. You know, I think those are things that, if I think from an emission standpoint for a college, are important, you know, because that's what you have to do the rest of your life. Yeah, right, and be part of team and and that consistency and perseverance that comes with playing all those years too, and multiple sports that plays onto it. So if we go back into your high school, if you could take maybe one or two memories that you say, I'll never forget this, this moment, this time. You know, some people to graduation. Some people it's winning, yeah, you know, a big game. Some, I'm it's winning a state championship. What was that moment for you? I think, I do think when I from a sports standpoint, when I won Wi bills doubles, that was like a big thing for me because we were a completely were a total underdog, you know, we were like Zelian Noble, like you know, and we were playing shadyside academy and everyone assumed we were going to get crushed and we did it and we won and it was so awesome to I mean I remember that emotion. I remember that day and I also remember my mom the next morning came and said, you know, your father cried himself to sleep last night he was so proud. So I think that also has stuck with me. My father is like, you know, the most genuinely awesome human being and he was just yeah, he was so proud. So that is definitely one awesome that's gotta be up there proud. Yeah, I mean he really really was, you...

...know, on the flip side of that, not that it's I think I struggled. You know, I went through adolescence and kind of like as a child, I think I had some angst towards my parents a little bit because we moved around so much and I felt so disrupted and I was. In hindsight, now I'm incredibly flexible, yea, and I can build relationships really quickly. Yeah, but you know when as when you don't have a frontal lobe, you're like it's hard that executive functioning. It's a little harder. So I think in part that was part of the reason I chose not to do softball, because I was almost like a punishment in a weird in a weird way for my father because I was such I was so good at softball and that was his sport and I just was I kind of tossed it out. Not that I have that as a regret, because you know, I'm content now, but it's interesting how, you know, different things influence you and your family dynamics have changed me. Probably. Yeah, it's like an act of rebellion, kind of yeah, we might have rebellion. We can sympathize with that, with moving our kids around. How we want to do that too. So that's they hey, you like to way. I hate us, except for when I cooks all the time. The two of them I really love. It is a really trying to rebel. Would have to Gustine and but cheek. I love us so much for statooed on their buttet, all three of them. It was a requirement. That's not pathologic. What's your diagnosis? If they would do that, where would you start? HMM. So you had a good high school. You have fun Kinneca Valley Middle Nowhere. HMM. You love saying yeah, wow, cow tip for city barn parties for I'Ming. The trouble is, lots of Ska bands in high school. Yes, but so you go to college. What sport did you play in college? I played ultimate Frisbee, which was amazing, yes, and basketball. Basketball, so in ultimate frisbee. What's so special and amazing about ultimate? Oh my genuine it was just like it was such a blast all the time. I mean you were in you were probably in the best shape of your entire life because all you did was run, run, run, run, run, my gosh, but you had so much fun. So there there wasn't a coach. Okay, so that you just had captains and you you, you were with everyone from every year. So it wasn't just like the freshman, you know what I mean. So you it was there were seniors that kind of were mentors, right, that that took you under your wing and you would travel for torn anaments together and like large vans, and you know, you there was like Brown. Always had these Halloween October tournaments and you would dress up and like, you know, I remember the year we all went as Austin powers and you know, it was like I was wearing these Whitey tidies that I painted. It's the British flag, male simple t shirt as Smith College. I was like, and then are the other co captain had like, you know, as whatever his what was his name? Evil? Oh, like, yeah, the pantyhose. Oh, yeah, it's like I think I need to see photos, as you do need to see so did your dad ever come to an ultimate for his beginning? He did. Yeah, Oh, yeah, he enjoyed it. I mean it was yeah, it because it's Co Ed, right. So not at Smith? Yeah, yeah, but I did my senior year I did play with Amherst and that was fun because I got to do some coed tournaments and we traveled to McGill and other places in Canada and things, and I was it was a nice so what like when you played it with Amherst? Why didn't what change that yours, like justter senior year with Amherst? Uhum, is there just new rules they combine or how that that go? I think I was I wanted something a little more competitive ways. Yeah, I wanted to do something co Ed. I was kind of like, you know, I just wanted to see what other you couldn't get into all the tournaments. Mr Brother, that's what I was trying to find my soul mate. That is not true. I spin off. That's probably what everyone that was what everyone was thinking on the podcast. So I just had to clear the air there, right. Yeah, so you play ultimate Frisbee. Yeah, the whole time you're in school and then basketball. How long do you play and what was that like for you? I played two years of college and and that was enough for me. You know. I again,...

I was probably I was in great physical shape. I had some wonderful friendships. It made the transition to college so much easier for me because I had I walked into a support of network. Yeah, and I also was premed and trying to do labs and the travel was I mean it was eating me and it wasn't like, you know, Division One where there's tutors and things to help you out. Right. So it's like you got home at eleven and you had to do your organic chemistry, you know, and I just I couldn't. Yeah, I was I was done. You know, I enjoyed it. I found I had a network in my house and yeah, I think, I think I continued to play ultimate Frisbee to so I still had that network. Yeah, but it was less, it wasn't as intense. I couldn't manage it all better. Right, yeah, I think that's a welcome well, yeah, situation when you when you're playing basketball in college, no matter at what level, you have coaches and there's expectations and all these things. correctimate. Frisbee with no coaches, it wasn't as yeah, if you went out and didn't have a great game or it was just about having fun. Right, right, but in basketball that wasn't in college it's not allowed like Infirma. Yeah, an, yes, I'm performing the correct it's like you only got six rebounds. You're now going to run fifteen sprints. You know, that sort of thing. So much fun. Yeah, I loved it. Smell of puke throughout the genial work. Yeah, you only did six in takes this week. Take a lap friendship park. Now let's start Thursday. I think we should. We think we can do it. I'll back you up, I'll just stand behind you. Yeah, so I'd be like the perfect thing. After our talk today about how harmonious we are as a team, talk about that. Yes, that would shake things up. Yeah, so you knew you wanted to be a doctor, h from the time you got to college or earlier? Yeah, earlier. Did you know what type, what you wanted to specialize in, or did that come to you later? That it came to me later. I definitely had I had a connection with kids, I think, kids and animals, like I felt like they were very good judges of character on a bre you know, like if I'm in a park and I'm sitting on a bench and a small child comes up to me, I'm like, I'm doing okay, yeah, I'm a genuinely kind person. They send me, as say, right and save things true for a golden retriever. So I think I like always knew that I had that interest. I I definitely did not think of psychiatry as another possibility, and then I realized how I think, in part again because of sports, but how strong like one's mind is to one's physical and mental wellbeing, and I wanted to be able to take care of the whole person. And so then I decided I needed to do both pediatrics and psych hmm. And I think I still do that now, which, you know, goes back to what I'm saying. I really I would get sort of like restless if I was just doing psychiatry every day, I'd be like yeah, I can see that, but now that I get to go and do like while child checks and do pedes on a day and see some kids and see some MOMS, and that's keeps me on my toes a little bit. Yeah, so after Smith, where did you go? I so I was a physical chemist. What is a physical she were. That was my major SOMM I worked with Shizuokashe she was my mentor. She's probably got me so thrilled that I said that she's going to definitely be listening to this podcast. Oh, yes, I send it to her. Yes, she was great. What we did was look at hydrogen, like certain prooxides and their impact on the ozone lare. Oh Wow. We did a lot of spectroscopy and so and organic so I worked through that. I basically wrote a master's, because it's Smith. That's pretty much what your honors was, was a master's and and then I didn't really do stellar on my entrance exams for medical school, which probably wasn't surprising out of the gate. Yeah, my brain was never a really good standardized testest. And Yeah, it became that I had to over exactly. Yeah, I started to figure that out, but so I just didn't feel I didn't I didn't have the opportunity to really even go straight into med school. So I took three years and moved to Ann Arbor and worked as a physical chemist for fiser pharmaceuticals, and I lived like the young adult life, you know. I biked to work every morning, I...

...played in the like intermural football after work. I was having a blast. Go Out, hang out after work and have a drink and go home and no responsibilities other than there. I owned house and that and a dog, you know, like live in the dream, had great neighbors. And then I did that for three years and I my parents also had five kids and paying for college was, yeah, not really an option, you know, all the way around. So I had to make some money and so I did that for a couple of years and took care of my undergraduate you know, loans. Luckily, Smith was need blind, so that helped me tremendously. Yeah, but yeah, so I did that for three years and then I was like kind of done being in a lab by myself. I mean, can you imagine? No, I didn't talk to either. Be Days. I go into work and I would listen to music constantly and just kind of do my own thing. But I was what's your favorite music? I was at that time. I was like listening to a lot of jazz, like and I was listening to like Nina Simone, Billy holiday was I don't know, I don't know why I mean it. I guess it was soothing. Yeah, to be in a lab like that, just here, just wail it, because you would have this whole lab space by yourself you could turn on as long as you want to go. Yeah, fun. I had a blast that in the dixie chicks, I mean you know, there was a lot going on for them during that time period. So, yeah, I remember that. Yeah, I went to that first concert in Detroit when they came back on tour, and it was it was my Nan, do year old Nana there. She was shaking booty. I love it. She's like hold onto the bar dance and that's so kids. Great Wolp. Yeah, don't worry, we'll edit that out. We'll cut that out. Yeah, so that was fun and then I was like, oh my goodness, I cannot do this for the rest of my life. And I'm not really I'm kind of helping people, I guess, if I'm figuring out how to not produce solvent waste and help our environment. But that wasn't really the intimate help that I was kind of craving. You know, medical schools coming. You just didn't know exactly when. Yeah, I well, I had always hope, yeah, that I would be able to get there, but, you know, at like a hundred potcenture and it was really hard, you know. I mean, you know, you work with me, my brain doesn't really I mean, I just I'm I don't I don't see things very black and white and I've true a lot of getting into medical school, I think, required a lot of testing where there was a right and there was a wrong and you know, and it took it took me some time to get my score to a point that was even tolerable. Yeah, and I think I might have applied to two hundred and fifty medical schools or something. And do you know how many schools I got interviews at? You can guess five. Two to we Michigan stately and the University of Vermont, and so I did both of those. Yeah, and I luckily I got accepted pretty early at Michigan State and it was in state tuition for me, and so I went there. Yeah, and it just goes to show you, because I did. Okay, I think you know. But yes, it was not an easy road to get there. Not An easy road to get there. Easy Path. No. So how did sports growing up and you know, all the competitiveness and everything, how did that get you through all those hard times? I think you learn how to basically get hit with a baseball bat repeatedly in your gut and like just say to this world, like, you know, here's a world that's saying like, go ahead, try and, like, you know, take this, take this, and you're just like I can, yeah, and I will, and I know I'm I know where I'm supposed to be and I know if I can get there, I can do great things. So I just I just was, I think, quite I think I would say I'm pretty resilient, you know. I think I've done yeah, I've been through things in my life, trauma, loss that has been catastrophic, and that's that's one thing sports has taught me is to just get back. Oh, get out of bed, yeah, and get walking and get in, get into your ritual. Yeah. So yeah, that really helps. So you get the medical school and you feel like it's like a whole new start for you. Correct. Yeah, yes, let it all go. I finally got IM in. I'm going to do what I feel like I need to do now. Correct, and I just that's what I did. I didn't I just studied, studied, studied, studied, studied and, like you know, I excelled in medical school and I got Aoa and I performed well because I knew that was what...

I wanted to do. I was honored and I was very appreciative of Michigan State for giving me the opportunity, and so I just I hit it made the most. You feel like those three years off kind of help, though. I matured. Yeah, I matured, and it got me some time to learn how to do multiple choice questions, you know, like, Oh, this is what I'm supposed to do. Okay, pop will do that. Yeah, yeah, I gotta say this this is the right answer. Yeah. So, so Annie, I know for me, Anny, that some about you, but obviously your triple board certified, right, and you go into medical school, slacker, right. What kind of music you have to listen to? The Triple Board certified? Yeah, yeah, I did. I did occasionally listen to opera when I studied, which is like I don't even know. I mean I never listened to opera, but I was ad were I have probably the most ECLECTIC yeah, I would agree. Yeah, I listened to everything from like country to opera to pop, you know, like we were. I was trying to get everybody to do the salt pepper dance today, but I struck out. She did because apparently I was the only one that learned any let her do it though, for a little bit. You did. Anybody film it now, but next time you'll have somebody always has to have the phone out, I know, telling it first later next time. That next time. Whitney Houston. I mean we all know I went to Vegas to see Selene Deod so when I say Eclectic, quite clear a very wide range, yes, but I was in when I was at Smith we used to go to all the ska bands, like rustic overtones, catch twenty two. Yeah, my Gosh. So, I mean I listen and I still do. I haven't heard Wootang clad. Yeah. So, no, I didn't ever go to Utang concert. That's actually supper, but I do. Yeah, but I've been to other concerts in that category. Yeah, name your favorite one. I loved maclamore. Yeah, I was so great. Yeah, I would want to see him in concert. Yeah, I did. We've kind of missed it. Which we missed it? Miss I don't even know. Like, yeah, best concert. Well, like, I saw Paul Simon. Oh, cheese, I mean that was so that's not trump. Just about it. I saw Bruce springsteen. Lots of Awesod you see here? I did. We played for like three and a half hours. Check. Yeah, Oh, that's a good one. How many beers do you drink in three and a half hours? And Brandy Carlyle? Love Brandy Carlyle. I haven't seen Brandy Carlisle, but that hurt. She's very good too. Yeah, so, so you're in your that's a I will say another thing. I play instruments and I think that that is a another that is, if I am like in my head or I've had a long day, I will sit at the piano and just like yeah, that's like the only thing that I can kind of just be very mindful about. If I tried to go for a run, I'd still be like thank you the little little bit, but if I am sitting and play playing piano, I'm forced either read music or pay attention. Yeah, in a way that calms my mind. How many? What instruments do you play? Well, I mean presently I do a lot of piano. I do guitar. Oh, in high school I played the Tuba the trumpet. With the Tuba, it was quite large. Well, you know what happened? They couldn't spell out SANTACA and so they needed someone to switch, and so I was the Chosen One from the Trumpet Section, from the Trumpet of the day that I marched with us. Easy transition. It wasn't as hard as I thought it was going to be, and actually I really like like beats. Yeah, you know, so it's like five. It was like this. This is very soothing. I'm just gonna be like instead of playing the Melod in but of playing the melody all the time. It's not like a tube. So good job. Thank you. You're welcome. Are you a karaoke post person to do you sing a lot? I know, I wouldn't say I sing. Well, he didn't ask that. He just has to be saying a lot. Yeah, you probably could get me to do Karaoke. Yeah, I'm sure there's lots of times for you driven home in a car and just Oh, I'll oh, yeah, I will wail if I'm in my car. Yeah, Oh, if it's like my immediate family, my son, oh, he'll requests his favorite zone. He's been so interesting. He's also very ECLECTIC, like million reasons by you, lady Gaga, loved that Sawesome Song. That's the reason that we're going to strip is. Yes, yeah, downtown was another big one, which, you know, it sounds like I just listened to Mac more, but it's not. He loved that Song. Yeah, he also really loved Dear Marie by,...

Oh my gosh, John Mayer, who I just saw in concert, which was spectacular, and he's good too. Yeah, yeah, anyways, a sidetrack. I like that. Like sidetracks my favorite. So you're in medical school. What is the first? Like you said, I'm going to be a psychiatrist, right. Is that the first, or was pediatrick's kind of more ever your head first? Yeah, I think I was headed more towards peeds and then there was I think I was like totally blown away by like psychosis. Yeah, you know, like how something could happen and someone's mind could get, could change so dramatically and then get better so quickly with medicine and I was I was like nothing I had ever seen before, you know. So how it spring up for you, though? Like if you were on like the kind of the peds track, what in our action did you have? Was it just a rotation the kind of brought this up? Yeah, I would say it's a rotation and I think there were many of peds cases that had that element, had that element. So that's what kind of got you hooked on. We had a lot of oncology at Flint. So I did my clinicals at Flint and Flint Michigan, and it was tough. I bet and LD or obstetrics was tough and I think I saw I think that also got me in at least interested in the impact of sort of mom on baby. Okay, so first time that spark was right and circumstances. Yeah, on the die add you know, it was. It was a difficult I mean it and not for me, I mean a white middle class, but it was. It was a challenging place to do your clinicals. Yeah, I can imagine. And so I think I started to really see the influence of like disparity, right? How? Like lack of stable housing? Yeah, food. And so then I started to get involved in kind of court, court advocacy for children and and I just could I couldn't see myself separating them. I just couldn't. And then I and then so I went to Western psych and I did an internship on the psych chowne Elis and psych floor and that was where I met Sarah Wolf. So talk about this is a great place to go on the podcast right now, but we're here. So I did a an internship for a month on a inpatient unit and I met a triple board resident at UPMC and she was the most brilliant I was. I was like mesmerized by her intelligence. Yeah, she was so eccentric in a way, like just patience. Felt that there was a comfort that they could say things and know that it was she was not going to judge them. And she had she had a wit and a sense of humor that was light years beyond mine. That's hard to believe and it's true, and it is totally true. To Talk to her. She's still know, it's okay. So it's all right. A couple of years ago she was murdered. And Yeah, so we so I went through residency with her and I mean, and I knew it. As soon as I met her, I was like this is this is the right place for me. It was the same feeling I got from Smith, right, you know, like I don't believe that things happen for a reason, but definitely you come across people in your life who who can change you in a such a dramatic positive way. Yeah, and I crave that. I crave those types of relationships, like people that I know are going to influence me. Yeah, and I you know, and it it probably isn't part. You're being self deprecating, right, but it's like I always feel like I could be better, I could be more understanding, I could be more intelligent, less judgmental right, and I knew that she was somebody that if I was like, this program is breeding this. Yeah, this is where I'm supposed to be a part of you, and so I went there. And then a couple years ago, her and her sister were murdered and rocked my world. Yeah, of...

...course it has to rocked my world. And you know, you would you think the amount of it just gun violence that happens on a regular basis here and in Pittsburgh. I mean, I am not like again, yeah, I'm pretty, Pretty Gosh darn privileged. Right. Eight and I was stuck a western psych because a shooter came in for hours. I lost amazing friend to a random act of violence. That is never going to make sense to me. Yeah, and we had I. I almost lost a dear friend. Or right, you know, is fearful of losing a dear friend in the synagogue shooting? Yeah, like my almost my soul mate. You know, it's like you can't, I just keeps getting reopened the wound it does. Can't go and sleep an IT makes no sense. It makes no sense and you can't you you, you sit for hours and days and months trying to make not I rationalized. It wasn't rationalized. You know, like the only thing I can say was, like she was so perfect as a human being that, but I can't even say that, you know, like is that doesn't make she would have had the lives that she would have impacted. Yeah, you know, and I I some degree feel an incredible amount of survivors guilt, I think, because I was, yeah, you know, supposed to kind of be there when also there's probably sadness for the world that she would have really helped. What a loss. You're carrying some of that on, though, because, I mean, when you described her, I was thinking about you. That's how I would describe you. I think I saw a lot of myself, you know. I think there were you know, she was like Sarah Prime, I was Sarah Double Prime, that sort of thing. You know, I think I saw a lot of myself in her. Yeah, I don't know that she ever felt the same. You know, the things you don't talk about whenever. Yeah, well, when you don't think time is an issue. No, I'm it's like one of those people I'm never going to be, but I'm sure as Hell gonna try, keep trying and insand and it has definitely motivated me, but I will never feel that I yeah, I'll never feel that I got there. You know what's Gray, as we all have mentors and people we look up to and strive to be like it. Maybe you know a hall of fame quarterback, like when I was a kid, Terry pratchaw. You know that I want to be like that. I want to grow up to be like him, and those things come to us at different times in our lives and you met someone who influenced you so much you just wanted to be like her and it's such a privilege that you got to be around her as long as you did. Absolutely and she you know, and she actually is changing all the world because she influenced you to go do what you do from the outside, that's how it looks from the inside, it probably doesn't. Yeah, you know, it's again. I mean her family lives in Iowa. But what I hope that they listen to this because you know, it is a every year. Is still incredibly tough and it's not just tough for me, it's tough for all of us who lived through it. Sure you know, and I hope they know how how wonderful we all thought she was right. So and her patients. Well, thank you for sharing that that. That's hard to do. It's not an easy problem and and you know, it really goes to say what our country is going through, you know, and it's so sad how many people that you can sympathize with right now and everything that they're going through. Yeah, and it's really hard and it with your background, even in psychiatry, you got to say, like what is going on? Yeah, that's kind of where our meeting took a little turn. We were talking about what happened over again and it kind of went to to to that conversation and that's something I was thinking about because, you know, you hear so many opinions flying at you, you know, on our TV screens, through the news, news stations and things, and people trying to speculate and figure out why, and they always bring up mental illness and most of the time the shooters do not. They're not diagnosed with a mental no illness. It's already stigmatized enough, and then we have this coming through and just ignorant people who don't know anything about it right saying this did. How does that affect you when you see that such just really anger you beside the fact of the situation? Yeah, I look at them as just random acts of...

...terrible violence. Right. I I don't know that I have high expectations right now. Yeah, that's a horrible it's it's kind of a weird thing to say, right. I wish that I believed that our our general population had an understanding of that. Yeah, but I almost feel like we have not invested in our education system in any way that would even allow our children or even our adults to even be able to comprehend such a thing. I agree, which I don't mean to sound concerned, like conceited, considers me sounds truthful and accurate. I just as I'm not placing blame, I'm just I'm I'm incredibly discouraged and I'm trying to do what I can with what with the with what I have. Yeah, and to me that's been building a program that has amazing minds and amazing women that from all walks of life. And we struggle sometimes, we all struggle sometimes. But I said it this morning and I mean it, we're in total it's walking into a harmonious environment and just saying this makes sense. Absolutely, and we're going to make the city in the world a better space ace. Yes, definitely. But I I'm sick and tired of gun violence. Do you know? It's and you wonder where it comes from. Right. Why can a twenty one year old go and do that? And what is going on? And sometimes I look at sports and say that I don't know if any of those people who've done some of the the awful things that they've done have been involved with a team. I felt that love of a team and gone through those wins and losses and those hardships and puking correct grand fifteen sprints together. Yeah, and you're there picking each other up right, in the sense of community. You're not going to let your teammate run it alone. You're sure as heck run in it with them. Yeah, I think you're so right us, and I think that's one of the most amazing things that sports is that it's so strength focused. Like you, you don't put down your teammates, you don't focus on their weaknesses, you don't point out that they made a mistake. You just you're you're all jointly involved, trying to do the right thing. You're trying to you build each other up. Yes, you stay afterwards to help somebody get better at something, or they stay to help you. You know, you feel a camaraderie, you feel a loyalty, you don't feel lost, you don't feel alone. Right, you have a network of love, absolute network of loves. And then usually, if you're on a team, that coach is responsibility is to see that person who isn't filling that or part of it and say what's going on. Can Yeah, I know your teammates want to accept. They want you to be here. Let's, you know, work harder find out what that is. And he's Dad, I mean your dad was. There was no tougher football coach out there. Yeah, how many players came back? Oh, yeah, you're after year. Yeah, Oh, yeah, and still visit him now and but I think it's like what you were saying, Sara. This truck me too, is that you don't concentrate on the mistakes that you make, as you know, because everybody has bad days and everybody has bad games and everybody has bad plays. So today it might be you. It's awful little so I'm gonna help you pick up that slack tomorrow. And then he absolutely hundred and twenty percent accurate under day. You. It's going to be your most days helping me. But that's beside the point where you were my goose today. Yeah, yeah, so many ways just handled. No, but it's but it's like the quote I have in my office, you know, like I'm in the arena. You want to pass judgment on me, fine, but I'm out there trying to figure things out. And I'm sure it is that going to fall and I'm going to follow a lot and I am not perfect. Yeah, and I'm going to make mistakes, and I think as a leader, that's an important thing for me. Yes, to say to the so the team is to say, Hey, I'm in the trenches with you right now. Oh, yeah, I'M gonna I'm gonna see patients. I'm not going to just tell you to do it right. Yeah, I'M gonna. Things are going to happen that are outside of my control. I'm going to try to make some one's life better, but I don't have total control over everyone's life. Oh my God. No, and learning to to, you know, to move forward with that loss is the same. When you think about, for me, going back to why I do what I do and in residency and having certain cases that just rocked me to my core. You know, I had a patient with Juvenile Huntington's that, you know, I overprescribed medication for and I literally cause something that killed this this boy. You know, we...

...didn't have another option. But yeah, you know, I call I cause neuralptic malignant syndrome which took his life and I have to live with that, right, you know, and and that not and there was no blame. The family was the family loved me, yeah, and I loved them, and we sat there together, you know, in the ICEU. You know that. I mean, this is life. Yeah, you've got to learn to deal with this really, really hard. Sometimes your teammates can bring you through it. I get picked up by our our team every day and I hope that they feel that I do that for them. Oh Yeah, I think we're all very selfless. I knew that the first minute. I think I made some stupid mistake and you're like, I got it over ATPIC. You part even remember, because you're probably Oh you, but I panic because I wasn't. You perseverated on it because I did know what way. Too bigger words for sorry, I'm not a thought about it a lot. You Go, was anxious. This is a sport spot. So sorry. Okay, so wait, so sorry, I don't have this great team. Yeah, tell me about this place that your team goes and works. What's it called? What do you guys? Do you want to talk about it or do you want me to well, go back start. See Alexis Joy Center for perinatal mood and anxiety disorders, and it is located at Westpenn it's a new center that we opened up last December and oh it's like spectacular. I mean, of course we're biased and there it is really gorgeous built shelves in there, by the way. That's true, as when we moved your wife out of the storage closet she was in as a desk on a metmber guld earner stripes. It's quite exactly, but it know, it's a center that is it's seventy five hundred square feet. Is huge and it's really just designed to be welcoming and, you know, comforting to new MOMS or women who are struggling with infertility, fetal loss, hormonal mood changes, you know, disorders and whatnot. And and it's very peaceful. A lot of nature, artwork and everything that you need as a new mom, I think, is there, you know, comfortable seating, breast pumps, like place for your kid. or how many types of how many clinics like this or across the county? Less than twenty? Less than twenty, less than twenty, which is mind blowing. Like ten years ago, how many clinics were like this? Oh, one, one, one or two. Brown had the first. Yeah, I mean we're very much behind the rest of the world in this. Oh yeah, and recognizing the need for mom baby treatment, right, that we which meaning a mom brings her baby to her mental health treatment, with the understanding that if a woman is depressed or anxious, it's going to influence her relationship with her baby. And how do we have it positive impact on sort of reducing the long standing impact of depression anxiety? So, as an example, kids whose moms are depressed postpartum have higher rates of Developmental Disorders, of anxiety, of depression. And so if we can have an impact early on, we can change the course, we can break the cycle of trauma. Yeah, and so that's what we try to do. Yes, well, both of you are Moms, and how does your experience of childbirth and raising kids, how does how does that come to work with you? How does that experience come till time ago, for me, I have don't dodge that question. This is to love with guys. Let you take these questions seriously. Trying to just know there's no avoidance, because there are different people in your office that that some that don't have kids yet, yeah, right, and some that do and some of the kids are in college and like when you're a clinical professional. You try not to let those things either, and it's hard. It's hard, but you don't want it inform your treatment of someone. So if I go to someone who hasn't had any kids, I don't really think that is going to inhibit the way they treat me or the way they, you know, kind of partner with me as a patient. So I don't know. I mean everything in life influences how you work, right, but I try, at least when I'm with a patient. I'm fairly new at it in this situation in this clinic, I try not to let it, you know, cloud any type of moving forward or what this the patient needs based on what I went through. So, if you like. So, obviously you can't go through every scenario in your life, right, right. So that's why we have to educate ourselves, as we have to go to school and understand all these different things that that...

...your patients go through. Yeah, but there are people that come in and that you feel similar to, maybe that you can understand, but that those life experiences definitely help you. I think that's true. I think there's always people that you can kind of see a little bit of yourself. You know, you have to be very cognizant of that as a clinician, that you can't just let I mean there's a whole host of of words and definitions of what that looks like and how you have to kind of fight those. Well, the reason I'm asking is because I want people to understand that that you guys, educate yourself and you get to the level that you are because you want to try and help them in every way possible, because you can't see every type of person out there and everything that every person that comes to the door is a learning experience for you, for sure. Yeah, and also then you're building your resume sort of say yeah, so I would say yes. I think everyone in our space has invested time and energy into learning specifically about postpart on depression and post part of anxiety and what it looks like and how to treat it specifically. But I think what is even far more important is what an's getting at, which is we have a team that is compassionate, that's that is understanding, that meets people where they are at and may not have the same background but as sure as heck not going to be judgmental. Yeah, and is going to try and is patient yeah, and and empathetic in a way. That I mean in the world of psychiatry, when you think about what you balance on a regular basis, as it just doesn't adult like going to and front work, right, but in the world of psychiatry you go home and it is real, real tough to turn that off. Oh yeah, it is real tough to turn that off. Yes, that's so true. So, and you get I think, and in our situation at work, everybody is so invested. So I think that it's almost like we have almost not to you know, compare contrast, but just it's almost like a harder time because everyone there is so motivated to be educated and do their best that I feel like it's such an ongoing thing that a lot of people spend their evenings doing that work, a lot of self growth and no writing in the evening, and that's sort of like no writing. But everybody's always, I feel like everyone in our office is constantly trying to be better, clinicious. They are best doctors humans, humans, which is first and foremost. Yeah, but you can't swing stick without hitting someone who's doing some online courts, are going to some conference, are getting a PhD right or you know all these amazing things, but we hold each other accountable. Yeah, to that as well, which I think is not always the case in true every clinic. Well, you you're building your team. Yeah, you're the coach, you're building. It's hard. That's a hard pill for me to swallow, but I know it is. But it's I tried to build. I try not to every decision that's made. I really try to bring everybody's opinion in, you know, and I think that is a sports thing too. You know. You know what the what do we all think is best? I know I'm not always right, far from it. You know, whatever is I surround myself by people that are going to challenge me in a healthy way. I think that's the key right there, to you said it, because I feel, you know, when I first started, I'm fairly new. I've only been there, not seven months yet, but I feel you want to do well on that environment. So whatever is happening between you know, you, Rebecca Leona, like the whole people who we go to for God, is working, because every single person is constantly feeling like they want to do well for everyone else, like it's a reciprocal good thing, not like impetitive? No, actually at all. No, not at all. It's a supportive, like very harmonious, to use your word from this morning, environment where we just really want to do well for our patients and each other. Well, that's no different than when you play with somebody and you're one of eleven people in the field. You don't want to let that person down. Exactly. That's so true. That is because if one mistake happens, then the play isn't kind of work. And I'm sure it's similar, right, exactly the same. If you don't correct that mistake, then it could lead to multiple. I think it's the way of the correction, though, too. It's a very supportive yeah, we do support of correction there. You don't have to have bounds. If you don't, we just makes me do that way in front everybody. Well, you, you want to know that, like if some because they're in it's inevitable, right, right, a mistake is inevitable, a bad outcome is inevitable. Yeah, regardless of how smart you are, how much time you invest,...

Oh yeah, and so you want to know that there's going to be people around you that are going to pick your butt up, Oh yeah, and say you know, let's process this. If there's something for you to learn, yeah, in it, great, let's learn it. Oh yeah, also, if this was completely and totally outside of your hands and it's a random act of violence, yeah, that's what it was, and don't don't overthink it and for sever don't perseparate on it. So, if you had to tell somebody who's watching this that needs to find help, understand how they can get better, they know there's something that's doesn't feel right, but what would you say to them? Like just call, come in, just just you, you you got to come talk to us. Or what would you say to that? I would say it's not your fault. A lot of what we see in terms of depression anxieties really result of biological changes that happened during pregnancy and postpartum and that isn't well known. And so when you come in and you talk to us, we can talk about how things change in your brain secondary to hormones and how you shouldn't beat yourself up and feel guilty if you're crying all the time, because you really couldn't change that. You did what you could right. There's certain things. Yeah, you can make sure you try to get some sleep, you know, but if you have a baby in your breastfeeding and they're crying every two hours, you're getting up right. So, you know, you can eat what you can, you can exercisee what you can, but a lot of what happens is outside of your control. And there is a tremendous amount of pressure on women right and and they and we're losing confidence in ourselves and and that's something I think. Another thing I think sports does for women is give them confidence. But you know, it's it's not your fault, you're not a bad mom if you have depression or anxiety. Yeah, there are real treatments that exist and are at westpend like. I mean they're around your corner. We've got it, you know. So yeah, so I would say first step is to always call, and I will say our number, because why not, for one, two, four, one, two, five, seven, eight, four, zero. Zero is our number and that's the best way to get in touch with us. Yes, for sure. So, yeah, one other question I have is we've talked about mom and the baby and it's very difficult. What can we say to the DAD, the husband, to be a part of this right, because usually it takes yeah, to to tango. So you know, even though, that you guys are going through everything we husbands. Hopefully I was, but you know, we need to be there, yeah, for our spouse and yeah, for our baby and everything else. Yeah, we get a lot of calls from husband's. Oh Yeah, and boy friends and partners. Yeah, just kind of try to help. So yeah, and I think we incorporate partners into a lot of our treatment. So we will do a lot of family visits where we'll have, you know, the the partner come in and a lot do a lot of what we would call psycho education, so explaining again, helping the partner to understand what happens and why it happens and what to say what not to say right because, like if if a mom is already feeling inadequate and guilty, saying something like Hey, I noticed the dishes are piling up in the sink is not a nice thing to say. Just do the dishes. Do the dishes and or say what can I help you with right now? You know, there's there are things we can we can help partners with. I think in that in that way, and I think also sleep. You know, when you think about how important sleep is, partners can take feeds over night. They can do but those are things that we can help the family with when they come in. Yeah, I had a very large line. And tell me one time, Jim Lasha, you really telling that story? What? Yes, well, he was very adamant. I still remembers face see us. How big was? Jim lasha is big. So he said. We did when and it's time to get up in the middle of night and she has to breastfeed. Yeah, you need to get up and go get that baby and bring him in there. Oh, I thought you're going in a different direction. That's a perfectly great story you just told. Yeah, sorry, I thought you're sorry. I don't know what you were thinking. Wow, I don't think it's thirteen. So No, but I'm just saying like that was I don't know, that's I mean, I'm young, I don't know. He's right. Yeah, you have like a good influence. Or we were twenty five. Yeah, he's so. He was like playing for the Redskins and you know, I had a little I've more like baby blues. I did not have a post pardon with her and but I was, you know, young and trying to figure it out. And thank God...

I was a nurse, because I did have some of that base level stuff going on. I can care for her, but yeah, he told us to make sure. You know. So goswam Jim was like six eight. Yeah, and you have like a lot of kids. Oh Yeah, you remember. Here was a wonderful human. Yeah, he was. You get out of that bad and he did go pick up. That's an excellent point, though. But like, even if you just did that and yeah, change the diaper after the feed, yeah, that's still allows you to go back to sleep right without come being completely awaken. Yeah, and I will tell guys just jump in there and change the diaper like the first one. Stuff. Then that's all, everybody. It's all downhill from there. You heard it here. We're not warm with like another date, like non offensive babe. You had the nursing like this your well, that's true. Stories. Mostly you were at Armstrong. Oh Yeah's some those either there. Yeah, so when when? You know what? I had monty? Yeah, he's for now, but Mike and I couldn't match in the same state for residency. So I did my five years of residency at UPMC and he did his five years of residency at Michigan. And so for the first eighteen months of Monty's life, Mike was in another state. Oh, and he would. Oh it was. There were certain things that are like ingrained in my like you're like, you know, fifteen month old going to the back door and banging on it whenever he left on Sunday nights and being like you know that. We're just like not write initial part. We're in the same state now. Monty is completely fine, rising, very flexible, flex, right, different kind of music. That's right, because he drove in the car, our, ef our to and from Michigan. It's no surprising. Like sobriety. It's many. Do you have any other questions? Can I fire some off if you have some? Yeah, shoot, I don't want to keep you all night. It's fine. We know right now. I don't want his camera of this one because it was a better okay, but I'm gonna make sure we have let this show. Okay. Did you read these at all? No, first Oh, sure, do you know why? Because I wanted to make sure it was genuine spontaneous. Rich, you did really well. We're so. Are you still in contactors? Here we are by to me today, growing your decision. Right, I about things good far away. All right, a couple. My first question is, how much do you regret hiring me? You know I'm gonna Answer this question very seriously because I ask her that every day. I have absolutely no regret hiring you. You are a solid, thank human being. Clinicians are no problem, and I will say it again. I'm getting your plaque made up. Says that so would even meet your so you are a solid from Sarah, I would appreciate. Outstanding human being. Okay, let's Kip some these because they're a long. I also genuinely love you. I love you too. Just say I love being around you. We laugh non stop, so that's fine. We do pretty much. We have some weird stuff we laugh about. You like whole foods. Do you want to talk about I don't want to talk about whole foods, as you don't know, I'm tired of all oh well, wrong, just go okay. So we never really talked about this, but since we do a lot of Yogun things in our center with iopee patients, which is intensive outpatient. They come in three hours a day, three times a week, and it's mother baby and really amazing. So we do a lot of things like mindfulness in their yoga. What are your thoughts about complimentary medicine? I do have a kind of a limit where you think, okay, some of these are okay to integrate. There's a lot of people doing a lot of things out there that might not be necessarily yeah, so I am M I'm pretty evidence based. Yeah, you know, and I guess what I mean by that is I'm well, I'm also kind of like, if this works for you right and you know there's a lot of benefit and it's low risk, you know, go for it, right. You know, not it not everything works for for everyone, but I also think that there are some really severe illnesses, like bipolar that you know, medicine is, is needed. Right. So I don't shy away from saying that. You know. Yeah, again, when you think about like taking responsibility, for some reason women will be like, I should be able to just snap myself right out of this manic episode, and I'm psychotic and paranoid, but I can push through. But if you had diabetes, you would never be like, I'm not taking my insulin because I can just make it myself. Right, I'll use my brain to make it myself. When you think about it, it's just it's asinine. And so, you know, I think we just have to be mindful of we have to be willing...

...to stretch our minds. Right, yes, because you know, when you look at like CBD is a good example, marijuana, we don't know enough about these things right now and I went to a great conference on it and at Aspen Ideas Health Festival, which was, oh yeah, very enlightening. And but that's what I should be doing right I should be like learning about these different things. And you are, yeah, understood. Like are there kind of studies going on now with post parnamental or just more about mental health, likegnosis in general for CBD, for CBD and or cannabis? I'm not aware of any Perry natal stuff, guys, but why know, with pregnancy, not, but post meaning as treatment. Yeah, I mean there's definitely literature out there on sort of like the safety profile of marijuana during pregnancy right. Yeah, I'm not aware of but we're just starting to see and I h funded studies right now just looking at CBD and marijuana for anxiety disorders in general, which will be helpful. And I thought I maybe I could be wrong. I thought was just approved here in Pennsylvania for medical or everywhere, for these medical use for anxiety. Yes, all anxiety is because, yeah, not just honey tsd right. Yeah, so, I mean I hope that answers it. You know, I certainly there are definitely, certainly supplements that have shown some benefit, you know, their exercise, diet, certain foods that we should avoid, you know, and so I'm all for that. And mindfulness is like, yeah, an absolute no brainer. And they apart. And I'm excited about Lauren implementing the art therapy to very excited about that. She has, of course, she's like, has the whole thing lined up? or any one of our therapists? Yeah, on it. Well, all of our therapists are on it. She's especially on the art therapy part. She's excited about it. All right, sorry, I lost my trans thought. Did she get distracted? I did, so one like you, I know. So we talked about a lot of these. Pursue Medicine. Triple Board route most proman not sure, and we might want to. I don't know that we can piece me all that, but triple board, what it is like? What made yeah, what made you like howd of gotta explain what it is? Yeah, because it talked about your mentor yeah, but what is that exact triple board is a program where you end up, after five years of training, residency, training and fellowship, you end up being board certified in general pediatrics, child not a lesson psychiatry and adult psychiatry. So just to be clear. So you kind of have some flexibility in terms of, you know, what you can do, who you can see. Yeah, prescribe to. Is that the only triple board program or the others that incorporate Oh, okay, so I free. I believe there's eight triple board programs in the country and they usually each take two or three a year. So they're very small competitive. Talking about competitive, I that's competitive. Takes. Yeah, but think about the number of people that really want to invest five years and triple board presidency. I'm sure it's higher than one would think. Maybe maybe they're not qualified, but they want to do is we're all my wealth Qualif I want to do all kind of things. So we talked about differ, about like a depression, anxiety, I love watching the too, really, and then family and friends with symptoms. Is there anything that you think it's important for people to kind of watch for if they're seeing something. Yeah, kind of like the emergency type. Yeah, so when people talk about like baby blues, they're talking about like the first two weeks after pregnancy, and that's where you know there's a bit of like increased emotion. Right, tearfulness may be out of the blue. You're not sleeping very well, you're not eating very well, you might be a little irritable, little edgy, and that almost universally like that is what happens when your hormones drop. After two weeks of that, if you are still consistently depressed, if you're isolating to your bedroom, if you're not doing things that you used to do or things aren't fun anymore, if you're feeling hopeless or guilty, if you if you are having thoughts that things would be better if you just weren't here. Those that's not baby blues, that's depression. Yeah, and you need to call. And what about the anxiety piece, because that's one they kind of leave out, totally underrate as yes, we see vigilancy. Yes, we see far more perinatal postpartum anxiety than we do depression. Yeah, and that's sort of like I can't sleep because I'm nervous the baby's gonna stop breathing overnight. So I'm constantly just putting my hand on the belly to make sure it's it's going up and down. I'm getting I have the Monitor, I have the monitor right next to me and I just watch it. Yeah, I'm avoiding going down the stairs because I'm having intrusive thoughts of dropping the baby. Yeah, and feeling overwhelmed all the time. And you know, a lot of that can be physical as well, like my heart's racing, I'm tremoring, you know, I'm like anxiety. Sometimes I've got diarrhea. Yeah, all those great things, all this wonderful, wonderful, I don't think so. Yeah, and so psychosis is always the...

...thing people think about. Yeah, and there's obviously, like we spoke about, a lot of blame that goes on with that with MOMS who and it's very rare, right, isn't? One in one percent? Yeah, that's what I thought. For that, it's the Good God dam well fried. Yeah, so that's the symptoms there look very different. It's it's correct me if I'm wrong. Let's be a good test for me, is it? You know when someone's experiencing that psychosis. If they if it's Ego Syn tonic, when they think it's the right thing. They're hearing voices or hearing someone tell him to do something and they think that's they should do it and carry it out. Yeah, so we get a lot of calls the people have these thoughts that they can't believe they're having these thoughts, but there they know it's wrong. Yeah, and that's not where safe kind of yeah, makes sense. Yes, so if you are if you're in a position and you're having a thought about your driving your car, let's say over a bridge, and you get the thought I should just drive my car right off this bridge, and you're like, oh my gosh, yeah, why would I think that? I have no desire to do that. Yeah, I want to be alive. This is really scary. Why am I having thoughts about hurting myself? Not Psychosis. Right, that's anxiety. Yes, that's an intrusive thought. That's OCD yeah, Eskin, sort obsessive, compulsive. If you are staying up at night and sort of like Parny, that someone's gonna break into your house and steal your children and, you know, like take them to New Jersey, and there's no reason to believe that that is at all a reasonable risk. If you are driving across a bridge and you're thinking, I want to take my car and drive it off the bridge and you want to take your car and drive it off the bridge, that's psychosis. Yes, it's severe depression. Right, that's that's different, big difference. Yeah, that's the big difference. And and a lot of times when you're psychotic postpartum you have no idea, you don't really know what's going on. Right. Yeah, you can tell maybe that you're not thinking right. You know, mostly it's the partners, the pope. That's was going to ask. I was it more important for the people kind of outside? Yeah, attentions the partners who are like this is not my wife, like something. She's not making sense, your text messages aren't making sense. No, I've never seen her like this before. She's not sleeping at all and she's up, you know, like writing on the wall, and she's never done that before. That's psychosis. That's like serious emergency. Yeah, so what are the biggest predictors then that someone will develop? Maybe not psychosis but just more general like Postparton anxiety or Postparton depression. There's a prior history. So if you've had postpartum depression or anxiety before, you're at increase risk. If there's a family history, if you're somebody who, you know, I has sort of always been a little bit moody, irritable or Sad. The week before your period. Yeah, you know, that's can we say that? On huddle up with gusts, can we say period? Yeah, why could you say serious? Only time? That's probably the same menstruation period. The week before. You have to say it louds yeah, before you blee. Don't grope that out of you. Don't edit that out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, working. So, substance use, disorders like minimal, minimal supports, financial stress, you know, those are all risk factors. Age, you know, there's a variety, but certainly preexisting mental illness is a huge factor. Okay, so some of these we asked already. Okay, what are we going to do? Some fun personal stuff. Are you still in? Yeah, well, there's yeah, I'm no, I'm getting in the fun personal stuff now. Okay. So all right, so fun. That's that one there. But we're going to do I'll jump in a little bit on this because I think that we've kind of explained the clinic really well and what you guys do. Yeah, you want to say the number again? Four, one, two, five, hundred and seventy eight, four, zero, zero. That's it. But what we'll do now was we're going to get in our no huddle segment. Oh Nice, all right, so that means but I'm expected. So it's our two minute drill. It's at the end of the show here we get into our note huddle segment. We ask you questions and then see how fast you can answer them and we try to ask you, you know, some fun ones. I'm sure any has some good ones in there, but more to ask. I don't know if they could do it two minutes, but I'll try on. It's just called that because it's like you're going to edit down two minutes. Okay, we're sorry, trying to you know, at the body end zone here. Yeah, I get that reference right, so let me starry. So in no huddle. Yes, my first question would be do you have any pet peeves? Oh, yeah, disrespect, MMM, close mindedness, HMM, doesn't...

...sit well with me, doesn't not good. Not Good. That's a age. That peeve. Yeah, yeah, don't do it, goes, don't do it. Don't be closed minded. MMM. Don't call. This is another really good one. Don't call women who are passionate and opinionated disregulated. That also yeah, I'll tell on other yeah, yeah, yeah, and then shout out. She says, well, not two minutes go. Sorry. Yeah, okay, so they can't ask that one. Feminist idols. Oh, I should have an answer for this, but off the top of my this is a really hard one for me because I know there's so many women in my that is tough my nanas a that's a big one for me. I won't and you know that. Yeah, Oh, yeah, yeah, and there's somebody and your office little tiny version of this person, like you kind of like to little doll version. Oh yeah, well, I mean, who doesn't Love Arbigi? And I mean this is the thing is, there's so many people, there's so many there's so many close people to you that you're like those actual yeah, like female idols. They're like they show tremendous strength and courage in a way that I am like mindblown. Right, and that's everyone on our team. But yeah, I mean on the way to Ruth Bader Ginsberg is like. I mean I if I met her, I'd probably poop. I know, right, ever, but I also sho took us off action. Yeah, it's pretty strong. And Kate McKinnon, I mean love her again if I was on the subway with her, done same. Yeah, I'd be like a sniveling fan. Piece Out Mike. Okay, it that way. Hit that one out. Yeah, all right. So if you could go back and talk to a young Sarah, what, what advice would you give her? It's gonna get better. Yeah, yeah, just another great picture. Be Voler. Yeah, I mean, because that's been the hardest beatner myself. That haircut. Somebody else did. I wish we could. Are you going to show the picture? If you will let it, you have to give us a pool. I will give you approval to show my standing. Red that heard, that Red Polo with the button. You're very seriously, buttons. You think I chose that outfit? I don't know. Probably, maybe. I actually think you did. I might have. I think you one hundred probably did. Maybe not the haircut, but but but seriously, that's what I would say because, like, you need to have the courage to be vulnerable, and it's the horrst thing to yeah, and I would be like, Girl's going to get better. Yeah, when you're young it's hard, although I don't know is it's like that. Probably something my nose. You're good. God. What was it, dude? All right, okay, so this isn't fun though, this question, but I really want to know the answer to it. I'm sorry, no, it's sine. So can you remember any instances when you experience platant sexism or Misogyny in medical school residency? No, I don't expected. I mean it kind of goes back to my pet piece. When didn't you? When didn't? Yeah, that's right, easier question. You know that. It happens multiple times a day. There's microaggression. That's what my next question it's kine. There was a constant microaggressions. No, here there are probably some which I shouldn't yeah, you don't like? Yeah, no, absolutely not. You don't get in the specifics, but there it's definitely for people out there who think it's like not a thing anymore. Yeah, I think salary is a good example. Yeah, that's blatant. I think I've learned different styles of responding to emails because of certain responses. Yeah, I've had individuals, I've been at meetings where I have said something that someone may not have agreed with and they have turned their chair away from me. She's and I you know, as if to exclude me. Yeah. So, on that note, on, give me an example of when you were at Smith, which is an old girls school. Yeah, something that happened to you there. I'm sure it happens, whether it's a male professor or something sexist. You know, it was probably like the other extreme. I was going to say. I can't imagine. It was probably like more of the assumption that you were like, I don't know how to say this, put in uncomfortable situations because there was a that, you know, like that might question your identity. I guess. You know, like I think I was in situations where I was like Whoa, Hey, like let's not make any assumption right about me at all. Yeah, and let's just yeah, just because of the school you were at. You know, this is...

...a this is a great example. Actually, there was a online there's like an online chat at Smith. I don't know if it's even there anymore. Yeah, and when I played basketball, I I remember one night coming home and getting a bunch of people coming to my room telling me that there was a feed going on on the online about me and it was sexual in nature. It was Oh, you know, like she looked really great in her basketball shore. It's you're like, you know, she's so hot and that. I remember thinking, like that's happening here. Yeah, right, like it's what you would expect not to happen there. So I that's a good examp where. I mean, that really shook me. Yeah, I get that you're in that safe space. It probably didn't shake Gussie. was probably like, yeah, I love the Post that I'm hot, post that that Shit, you know, but seriously, that is such. That is so disrespectful. Right. So, but in that yeah, it still happens at all women's colleges. Everybody. Oh, I'm sure. So, I'm so, if you could go and travel to any place in the world right now, where would you go? I'd probably go to the Lake district in England. I find it incredibly peaceful. Yeah, and walk along the wall. I also went they're once with my Nana, just the two of us. We traveled for like a month across Europe and I've I've had the luxury of being in a lot of different places throughout my life and traveling. Yeah, but I think there was something very special about that area that really stuck with you. HMM, yeah, not to go back there sometime soon. You're free will. I've been your five minutes of free time. You have write. Any two more? Oh, that's it. So if you hadn't chosen to be a physician, when you think your career path would have been, committee see yourself doing? I can see. I would love to be a comedian, you know. It's like you gotta get some of that at work, you feel, but I should have. Yeah, walk into like everybody's office and just just rag on them, like you down jokes about them, and it's like in natty professor. Yeah, he's trying to get through and then the light shines on them and then at the comedian just goes after. Totally take that. Yeah. So I'm so snarky, though, and I was really upset because I read this book. You say snarky, snarky, snarky. Yeah, I like that word. I guess. No, I I am. I am, and I read this book on leader. I was like trying to like, yeah, like, Oh, I don't know what I'm doing as a manager. I'm like, fresh out of fellowship, I'll read these books, like you know, what's her name, like dare to lead, and it was like what is the worst possible thing that you can have on your team? Sarcasm, and I was like, Oh, forget it. I was like I'm done. I'm so glad you put that book down. Hit the ceiling. I did it. It was actually like a great book, but but that one. Yeah, you know, you like every book. You got to take what you but I was like, Oh man, I don't. I don't think I could change that. NOPE, I'm so glad you didn't. I don't know what I would be doing there without our little sarcasm outs of sarcasm. I think we need that. But all right, so the rest of this is depressing. We talked about gun violence already. I have the afford in here a couple times, and then I was talking about the Marion Williams and see an interview with the Anderson Cooper and about how she was. She was kind of defending some things she said in the past about she was talking about ssri eyes and in a depressant that sort of thing, and Obie's prescribing them. She got it in her head somewhere that. But then I thought about our situation. Yeah, and how sometimes that's like the bridge till they get to us. Yeah, and not every you know, rural community, not every city has the the great resource that we are. Yeah, so OBI's do their best to try to prescribe that to help them get out of that funk. And some people need it for a short period of time. Some people needed a little longer. Right. I just thought that was incredibly irresponsible. Yeah, I thought that that's a surprise. No, it's. This is exactly why clinician should be involved in you know that tabletics and policy. Yeah, you know hospital policy. And yes, you know. Here's the thing, like there's not enough of us and and Perry needle psychiatrists. There's late, there's like not. Yeah, so there is. There aren't no other options. CARE has to be brought to to those communities. It is unethical to not treat mental illness. Yeah, and if a obstetrician calls a psychiatrist on the phone for a...

...consultation and starts a medicine, that is a, yeah, professional thing to do and it is in the best interest of that patient. Yeah, totally so. I yeah, so I don't yeah, he was kind of grilling her on that a little bit because she was making a she was making some broad statements about that and about how, in a depressions don't prevent suicides. Yes, I think is a way more nuanced thing than she should have been talking about on seeing how. Yeah, yeah, she really hit a sorry, I missed that. I'm going to have to yeah, and you know that's my political affiliation, not Maryanna Williams, but democratic. So I watched hers on the debates. She was a little bit more coherent in this last debate, but then he kind of you know, I'm glad he took her to task on which I was happy about, because I don't know, I just think that's just are responsible to go and talk like that. You can say this is my opinion, but I don't know the facts. Yeah, she wasn't doing any of that. So, yeah, yeah, pretty interesting hit. Like when I came in and I was on and literally had a paper and they were like forty questions on here for you already I had a lot. Yeah, they could just stirred something in you, like you could be listening to her that. You know, I'm thinking about like how patients come to us a lot of times and a lot of the referrals we get they feel really bad and they're trying to the doctors, the obies, are trying make them feel better and the best circumstances and you know, sometimes it's a little while till we can get them in or or till, you know, they just want to get them started on the path of feeling a little bit better. And I'm not saying that's always perfect. I'm not saying it always works out perfectly right, but I feel like it's you know, when you don't know what you're talking about, when you're looking in a situation from the outside in and you're seeing, okay, this Obie or PCP prescribe these but you don't know the reasons behind it, I think it's really easy to jump to conclusions that are harmful in society for something that's already so stigmatized and so hard to talk about and it takes so much courage to even say to your Obie, yeah, and the number of women that would prefer to get that level of care with their obstetrician instead of a psychiatrist and that's okay, right, right, like we can be doing that while we're breaking down stigma, right, and we can collaborate on those things. Yeah, and it takes an incredible amount of courage for the one woman to walk through our door, and I was and wait in a waiting room a hundred percent and just to get there. Yeah, okay, on that note, one last thing that we didn't get to talk about. But for us to get this word out, which has already happened with you guys, you had a celebrity come in and do a big promotion for you guys. Christy Tikin came in. It was, you know, I can remember going through this all with you and and everything, but it was pretty interesting that she did a promotion. How do you guys feel about when a celebrity comes in and tries to give a voice to what you're doing? You know, because you guys are the workers, you guys are the ones in there, you're in the trenches. But then there's the that part of it. They can get the word out about hey, come to us, we can help you. Is that how do you feel about that? I am thankful that high mark and alleghany health network saw that as a something valuable, that that was we need to. We needed an awareness campaign on this. We need to get it out there and I think she, Christy Tigan, was incredibly genuine and so honest in a really awesome way with the patients that she met, but also just and working with staff, and I am, I'm incredibly thankful for that. And we have seen and it's working right, even just in our center, and it's and it's going to have a national impact. But when you even look at the numbers of referrals that we've gotten as a result of just, and it's not even people that can really come to us all the time, that it's just about getting people into the right services that they need. And so I'm I'm blessed, and I say that a lot because, you know, that's why we've been successful, as we've had the support from above. Yeah, you know as well. Yeah, it was definitely it's nice to be embraced like that and to be promoted and, yeah, for something that does need to be talked about a lot more so. I mean, I followed her on twitter. I didn't get to meet her. She's hysterical on twitter and she does come across is very genuine. You know, you can see through a lot of people that aren't. I think she genuinely wants to help and I think as long as celebrities, I mean I don't know expert on it, but as long as people recognize the privilege to yeah, because I think that their situation. Wow, a lot of the symptoms and what you're going through the same, but the resources are really different, and I think that's for someone who's struggling financially or has food insecurity or housing insecurity on top of, you know, dealing with Tho symptoms of postparm depression and anxiety. I think it's just important to make sure that you mentioned that, because I...

...think sometimes I gets lost a little bit, but I think that not that she didn't. She you know, she was good. I think, like when we hit Chris Long on, he talked about that, that yeah, we have a platform that we can use to get the word out right, and it may be however you do it, maybe a charity that you want to be a part of or just right Christ you did said yes, is something that's near and dear to me. I want to do that and maybe have a family member, like when I had American Heart Association tournaments because of my dad and yeah, and different things and when you are when you do have an opportunity and a microphone in front of you, that the people want to listen. Yeah, then when you speak about things that can really help people, it can make a difference, okay, and it can also get it also sends the message. Hey, like this hits everybody exactly. Doesn't make can have as much money in the world. Yes, you know, you can be incredibly rich and wealthy and have a tremendous amount of support in place and you still can get post pardon to pressure. Absolutely. Yeah. No, so join US and on hoddle up with Gus Christy. You got to retweet this because this is so important. Sarah, it was just it was interesting. You know, this was important to me because I think not only women need to know about this, but men and and athletes, and it's important what you guys are doing, because this here the people that we love. Yeah, and shade that they all need help. Yeah, oh, your emotional Babes, we've been that's sweet credit. Every speech I've ever given absolutely has got his credit, every single I don't know how. You don't know how you can bat that or get through that, but try. People that don't where. There's been a lot of tears today. Oh Yeah, I've got ten times today like literally laughing or otherwise. Both. Actually, we have from the whole game. That is always a combination of the to well and a Tara. Thanks for joining me today on hottle up with Guls. Great and really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for having us. We want to thank you for listening to huddle up with gusts, a RADIOCOM original. You can find our show on RADIOCOM, the new RADIOCOM APP or anywhere you listen to your favorite podcast. Please leave us a review or comment if you enjoyed the show. We are on facebook, twitter, instagram and Youtube at Hot Dole up with Gus. You can also visit us on our website, huddle up with gustscom.

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