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Huddle Up with Gus

Episode · 11 months ago

Debbie Doniger

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Joining me in the Huddle this week is Top 100 golf instructor Debbie Doniger. Debbie picked up her first set of clubs at the age of seven in Greenwich, Connecticut and became a dedicated student of renowned golf instructor Jim McLean, who has been her mentor for more than 20 years. As a junior and amateur, Debbie won every New York Metropolitan tournament in the area and went on to play at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, where she captained the golf team both her junior and senior years and led the Tar Heels to an ACC Championship in 1992. She was later inducted into the ACC Hall of Fame.  Selected as one of five college seniors to represent the United States in the World University Golf Championship, Debbie was the only American to medal that year, taking home an individual bronze. After college, she went on to compete on The Futures Tour, The Gold Coast Tour, and then in 1993, The European Tour.  It was very interesting to me that she picked her college around the fact that the coach would not try to change her swing or coach her differently then her current coach, Jim McClean. Her college experience created lasting friendships and shaped her future in golf.  Debbie is a Lead Master Instructor at The Jim McLean Golf School, where she has worked for over 10 years, and Director of Instruction at GlenArbor Golf Club in Bedford, New York. For more on Debbie and how you can reach her please visit her website.  http://www.debbiedoniger.com     See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Welcome everyone to huddle up with Guss,I'm your host fifteen year, NFL quarterback, Gus Fra. We are here inthe Ne Ansixhude andtirty one digital news studio. If you want to learn moreor listen, the previous shows you can check us out, Ot our website huddle upwith Guscom or you can listen to us on the new RADIOCOM apple wherever youlisten to your favorite podcast, while in the huddle our guests describe howsports shapes their life. Now, let's join the huddle. Vto Do another EISODE Howdo up wit,guets on your host gest for rot. You could find it literally anywheretoday. You know if Youare RADIOCOM person you can find if o' read of thenew RADIOCOM APP or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. You couldalso find this on the n e O thousand Shin Hundred and thirty one digitalnews down in Washington DC, and you can find us on huddle up with guthcom, I'm not joined by my hcohost Dave todaym going Solo today, but you know Dave's, not a big golfer. So I was running thisone all by myself today, we're joined by somebody who is known as one of thetop one hundred golf instructors overall out of every golf instructor inthe country. She's also has many highlights many accolades manyawards. One Super Super Knowledgeable about the game, loves to teach it andis super excited about the game of golf, and I'm reallyexcited to talk her ear off about golf, because I'm not very good to any tips Ican get today I will be thrilled, and hopefully I can use that to improve mygame, but joining us today is debigaunt Donniger Debbie. How are you doing I'mso excited to have you on Huddlewup with gus thanks for having me I'm happyto be here, so we usually start way back when youknow it's hard for us to think about back in the day, but I was when I wasresearching and studying some of you your past. You know there was somegreat pictures of your Gulf Wing when you were when you were young. So tellme about. You know how you got into the passion of Golf. Was it a family or amember or was it you know an uncle, or did you just fall in love with it? Well for anybody out there that iswondering during the panandemic. What for it would be golf? My parents arenot all first. I grew up on a golf course inCalifornia, because that's where we went on vacation my grandparents loivedout there. I am somthing Lorteeast, I'm from Connecticut, so my parents, just let me play golf and Istartd when I was seven, I played other sports. I I skated I played Tanis, Iswam and then, by the time I was felve years old. I turned to my parents Stumup with the game for five years instad. I want to go play the tour, so that's adifferent animal than just bringing your kids out to play, yeah with youand your family during the pandemic, but that is a way to get kids started.You know your parents don't have to play just pull the trigger and get yourkit out on the nock hourse, and hopefully they fall in love with thegame as well yeah. So what was it about golf whenyou were young? If you can think back to it, that really made you fall inlove with the game? I think intrinsically I like individualsports versus team sports, I love being outside. I love, I guesswhen I was a kid. I love the challenge of it, and fortunately I was prettygood. So when you're good at something- and you know that you can even bebetter at it, and luckily my parents found Jim McClean when I was twelveyears old and for those of you that don't know who he is he's, arguably topthree in the world now as a teacher, and so when you find theright coach, the right teacher, you have a mentor and then you start tosurround yourself with, like minded kids and other teachers that are alsopassionate about the game, then you know it can propel you to. However goodyou should or couldn't be, but at least you're surrounding yourself withlikeminded passions, and I'm just fortunate that I've had that since theoutset, so your I take your parents were verysupportive. You did play other sports when you were young, and you know now, as you got into golf later life did youever go back and ask your parents like okay, which one did you like sitting atand watching me and which ones didn't you like sitting at you know becausesometimes like even in swimming, you know it's you're underwater. They don'tget to see you. You know you're in the pool it's different than other sports.You know where and golf is even hard to because they're not like that superclose to you. You know it's not like you're, just stuck in a little squarefield like I always was yeah. You know, there's that's a loadedquestion. So it's a lot of question. My Dad wouldtake me neanly to my golf tournaments...

...drop me off and not watch and pick meup at the end. Also, you know within what you justdafed is the constant battle of parents now and kids that I teach to ouspecialize early on. Do you play other Thei Sports,so you're really athletic and all plans of motion, andso the answer to that from one of my good friends would be. I believe thatyou can emphasize early on, maybe not specialize, but everything is happeningearlier in terms of were recruiting and how good you can be, and- and so Ithink all of that has bumped up earlier than when I started playing, but interms of my parents being pushy, they pushedenough because they found the right teacher. They took me to my lessons.They took me to my tournaments. They organized everything I had a schedule,but a lot of it is also dependent upon the kid and being selfdiscipline andand being passionate and having goals and and again. I really do believe nowthat I have kids on my own who play a different sport at a very high level. You know thethere's a line as a parentthat you cross in terms of pushing pushing too much specializing doing theright things, scheduling no born out no injuries, and you know you really haveto do your due diligence and know your kid, because your kid could bedifferent than another kid, and you know it's interesting my journeyand how I got it done and it's you know my own path, it's not the same as myother friends Tuk, but it worked yeah. I know it sounds like it workedout really well for you. So if you think about it, Your Journey Ind, yourpad you talk about when you were twelve, you started working with Jim mcclan and what was that like, because a lot ofkids don't get those kind of opportunities. Were there other kidsthere with you or were you by yourself so McClean in my area, my mom had the foresight when I wasplaying local junior tournaments to ask the number one junior girl golfer atthat time, who's one of my closest and oldest friends who do you take lessonsfrom and Jim McClean was mentioned and again for the golfers that a out there.That know know of him. That was in the early S, and so I started with Gim at aplace called Quak a rich when I was twelve and Jim was one of the best inthe met section, certainly not known nationally as he is now, but he wasstarting to make his move and and every year got better and better and hestarted to teach Stedan best players in our area: Amateur Professional, juniorgolfers and no, there weren't other kids around again. This is anindividualized sport and some kids just want to be around other kids and so thePJ of America. With the idea of the PJ junior league, which Ididn't have as a K kid. I think that that's amazing and I have tons ofjuniors thate playing it and it's so fun it's just like they borrowedsomething from soccer, and so you play as a team and you play around thecountry and you have to qualify to join the team as a golfer. But in my dayit's a very so low based sport, but that doesn't mean yet you don't havepractice frounds with friends, and you don't make games in the afternoon, butyou got ta like to be alone and and on your own path, a lotin the game of golf which I'm totally fine with well. You know my daughter is twentyfive she's in vetscool now and I, when she was growing up, Bi coached her andall sports right, softball to basketball, she played Lacrosse andthen she end u playing field hockey in college. But I know when I was coachingher basketball team. When we lived in Cincinnati Ohio- and you know I havetrying to get all these girls together. You know around that kind of twelvethirteen year old age. A lot of them didn want to listen. They wanted to dotheir own thing, and I know that golf is a huge mental game right and so, when you were twelve and you'reWa gym, how did he help you go from? You know: Hey I'm just playing! Ireally love this. I want to do this in the concentration has to be so thereright, and I just wonder I because I've, never my daughter, never got into golf.I wish I would have gotten her Intho Gulf, because I love playing with myboys and I wanted to play with her. But now I feel like it's, maybe too late,but I don't know, but that to me is like th. It's golf is probably at thatage of RO super hard mental game to...

...focus. So how did you get through that?And what TDID Jym teach you at that young age? First of all, most of my fiel talkeygirls that I teach are good golfers. So it's never too late. That's EAL, easyont, for she was a goalie okay. You know what Theuh BrookHenderson on the LPGA she's one of the top tonof player. She was a goalie inCanada, Really Yeah Yeahi, don't know how Yo can have that ball. Coming outof that, like that speedit's crazy field hockey to me, I ynow, I know I know, but there's hope,and you should start er like you should start now with her. But in terms of seethis is where the coaching and teaching comes into playing. You helped yourbasketball team, so jim instilled the right. I think practice protocols,the right game plans to make sure that I I already fell in love with the game.Before I saw Jim Rightno, it was up to McClean to to have the wherewithal and theforesight to say: Hey this kids got talent, let's go about it methoticallyand let's see how good she can be it's different. If you have kids thatplay that don't have a lot of talent, then it can become frustrating. Sosometimes, if I have those kids, it doesn't mean that they can't fall inlove with the game. They just have to have a different mindset when you havekids with talent and they have different goals and passions. Then youknow you can manuver the game plans and their future in a different direction.But I think the overall arching theme is you can ride the highs and lows ofthe game of golf and there are more lows- and maybe that's in all sports,some thinking, nuts. In all sports, there are more lows than highs, but ifyou intrinsically love the the game and the practicing in the getting better and the constant, youknow reevaluation of things, you can absolutely overcome all theemotional hurtles. I mean I've cried so much over this game because I rantedItbad, which I'm sure and watching with a child who plays a different sport, can totally empathize with what I'msaying so with the right coaches. At some point, if you need a sport,psychologist or mental performance, I mean there's so many avenues o to goand research to you know alleviate some of thosedowntimes. But it's just. You have to have the passionto override those loavs. So then you get into high school andyou go to high school and you've been working with Jym now for a few years. Itake it once you get into ninth grade and you get into that and then yourautomaticlly, probably on the golf team in high school as well, and you have adifferent coach, so you know and I've done that whereI've had, you know, coaches outside of the sport, I was playing and they teachyou one thing and then the coach Yore with teacher do another thing andsometimes it doesn't mix. Did you did your coaches kind of have the samephilosophy for you, but I don't want to date myself, but Idid go to high school in Connecticut and I did not play on the team becauseit was only boys and they wouldn't. Let me play, and so I never had to dealwith that, and also, though I did play in collegeand I happened to have chosen a coach that would not be intrusive in that way, but I played nationally as a juniorbecause we have it's the same toward the Agaga. I love this tour. I love thepeople that run it and I didn't have to deal with what you'resaying Jim has always been my name mentor. My Nane teacher I play as wellas I do today, as I did then solely because of of this man in his totelagetha, one hundred percent bard non. I never sought out another teacher. Another coach I'veobviously had some kids that have come to me, taken lessons from otherteachers and come back. I think it's okay. If you want to get a second pairof eyes but you're in the Sene, I don't want to say Maththad, that'snot right, but same Livbrol, I'm saying liberal system. I think if you go to a different coachthat overhauls or believes a certain way andwants to see a certain thing. Maybe that will work for you I', notsaying no,...

...but it might also really hurt. Sothat's a different discussion as well, and and it's on I have with other teachers my peers, because it'san interesting one when you see toptop players, leave their coaches and theirteachers and go to somebody else who decides to really make a change.Are you ruining the DNA of that player or are you enhancing it and is it theright move? So it's a it's a really interesting discussion and we see itall the time on the tour. So it's a valuable question. I just never had todeal with it. So do you feel like so when you're inhigh school, you know, and you don't have a team there like a golf team. Doyou feel like that has changed a lot since you've been in golf since highschool? Like you, obviously you played a lot of tournaments. You still got anopportunity to go and play in college on a great team. You were an ACCchampion. All those things- and you know you still got recruited. So do you feellike golf in High School F R for girls should be, should be more of a TI. Youknow more of a sport and all high schools across the country, or is itokay? If the schools don't happen, yea well, look, there's a lot of collegesthat are canceling. Some golf programs, which I completely veamently, don't side with as nothing to do with title line it hasto do with these are kids. It's that work, theirassoff to be graded. Something and you have the opportunity- and I think I so much believe in the studentathlete and everything they have to overcome and go through and timemanagement, everything that is so wonderful about athletics and thenPairit with academics that Iam fullbore on golf teams. I do think most highschools have actually my high school from both my kids. My daughter willplay on the golf team, but it's it's mix so lo for mme did was I wantingthat and yearning for that at Greenish high school, not in the slightest, Iwas so happy playing on the HHDA and some other tours with. Like minded kids,I mean to be I honest. I folt, like a total loser growing up in ConnecticutPlaying Golf. This was a long long time ago and a lot of kids thought I waslike ridiculous and why aren't you playing field hockey and soccer andlacloss? And here I am falling in love with this fort? That was not popular.So in that respect, for me it was like she's, a big loser. Meanwhile, you knowI got accruited early. I went to Chapel Hill and circuitously. Now I teach theparents and the kids that thought I was like. What are you doing and now it'sallcool to play golf. So you know again it's a different experience for me, but I love student afplites and I hopeschools find it as valuable. I'm sure as you you play football, I'm sure weare on the same page with not dropping programs and doing everything we can to support thestudent athlete because they bring so much value to the school. Well, yeah.I'm intotal support of that because I think schools. If you have the programsand you've recruited kids, you should make the effort to keep those programs,because what o you, what are those kids, have an that's, what they went to yourschool for that's what you recruited them for and then all of a sudden youdrop the program and it's like good luck. You know it's terrible, my friendwith the William and Mary Yeah and they droppe three or four programs this year,and it's just you know what of those kids do they get to automaticallytransfer transfer you know and then all of a sudden, terthey're uperooted fromwhere they've been it's just it's a terrible situation so so to drop aprogram. I don't think it's an easy thing and I think schools really needto reevaluate. You know where money goes and I'm sure that the reasonthey're dropping is because of money. You know- and it's kind of sad, but you know and and so when I think about what you're talking about you know allof a sudden. You go to college and you're now you're on a golf like you haven't, really playedlike that before and then you become captain your junior and senior year. Soat was that experience was it did that excite you every day now you're on ateam with all girls and like we had to go, compete together and it's you knowit was probably e differentcate greatest time in my life the greatestblessing, and maybe it just worked out that way, because I didn't have it in high school...

...and some of the girls and boys that Iteach you do play on a high school team. They feel like I did in college, so I'mso happy for them. I wish my kids that again, I told youplay a different sport. They don't have their high school doesn't have theirsport, and so I always say I can't wait foryou guys to go play in college, so you can feel the way I feel it was thegreatest four and a half years of my life that North Carolina and those aremy friends till the day I die, and I just I happend to have picked the rightschool, the right team- and I was very fortunate and Lucky- I'vehad a few kids, not all like one or two kids that pickd the wrong school tea,wise, not necessarily academically but Teanwise, and it was a struggle for them and it was the dicodomy of what I had so Ialways felt bad for those those two students in Patinnicula. They went toHigh High Level Don teams, Hig talk an top five teeths, and so that's a shame. So what is a percentage of people thatgo play? Golf Ind College that make it to the professional ranks? What do youthink that is nothing yeah, less five percent yeah,that's kind of what the NFL is right like you make it there's a lot ofpeople that play college football and you know they try, but the percentageto go on and play in the Nflis, very small. I'm assuming golf is a lot likethat yeh becoming on the LPGA earlier in earlier, like maybe you should justgo to college for two years. Remember: There's a whole selth Koreancontingent that they play they term professional early on they have to playthe KOREANL PGA. Then another Korean tour before they're allowed to comeover to the LPGA, there's only a certain amount of spots to make thetour, so it is increasingly competitive, much much younger younger than you'regoing to see on the PGA tour. But when I literally say these are the best inthe world, this is the top one percent I mean: that's all there is to it. So it's a goal. It's a dream! It's formany many girls and boys, but the likelihood of it happening is not high yeah. So can you explain like me?Obviously, you've played in you Wen an in you, know, championships in collegeand then you go on and I think what is the tour called you ere onafter college. I'm trying to think here O got it right here, the golden beargocose and then I playthe Europen tour right. So so and then, but you were on the, I think it wasworld university matches or something is that a big a that seems like a lot of fun to tellme about like because I know when I'm playing my first game in college or myfirst game in the NFL, the butterflies and how nervous I get so when you getready like even when I go golf now, I don't really get nervous right becauseI'm not I'm like I've been hit by the bigest lineman out there like if IINShank a drive, I'm I'm fine with it right. You know I've been through otherthings, but now, but I've never competed as like, like that, like youhave competed. So are you nervous you get nervous when you, when you know inone of those situation, that's a good question. I goet ask thata lot. I think, if you play enough, like you, did from a Junor Golferthrough college through amateur golf high level. Amateur Golf: Yes, ofcourse, you're nervous, but you've been doing it since your twelve thirteenfourteen yearars old at the biggest stage. So you learn how to deal withnerves, and you know everybody's nervous on that first Ta. So if youhave that logical sense, that will everybody's nervous and you learn foryourself how to calm down how to get into your routine or the process.Whatever the case may be, then you know all systems are go, but you learn thatand you continue to learn it as you go through the stagess and the protocols.I was listening to a sport psychologist yesterday on adifferent podcast and he brought up a good point that Ihaven't thought about in a while- and I do think he's correct and I've seenthis with my own kids- that if kids can learn to win at theappropriate level versus skipping levels, I think that that's also valuable and if you learn to learn to win at everystage, you're supposed to learn to win. That also helps with you know: ParinPersol, of what you're saying versus skipping levels and then maybementally or emotionally. You haven't...

...already been there done that and thatcan hurt some kids that are growing up playingas well right right now, yeah. I definitelyunderstand the game of golf like because not at your level I mean I'venever been able to play at your level, but I mean I've played a lot of golf inmy life and it's it can be very emotional and mental and, and mostamateurs like I am when the wheels fall off, they fall off and you're nevergetting back on. But I think professionals like you know how to put the whels back on youknow, fix the flas lets get back on the road, not all the time, not allimfor. The love of you know whoget me off this golf course just get me out of here. I mean a good night.Sometimes clanb doesn't work clan s doesn't work your short games off andyou just call it a day. You know it's just, but that's the game of Olf andagain you learn that early on I mean it is what it is, which is why what a number at the end of this forecard and that's that's whan. She shot yeah. No, I get you hey everyone! We'retalking to Debi Donneger Golf Instructor Extraordinary Chop.Fifty women's golf, an strector, you name it. She has a list as long as youcan imagine we're going to take a short break and then we'll do right back togun it back here on HOTL UP O. U Hi! This is former NFL quarterbackGusterrot, sixhundred, ND, thirty one digital advertising. Is Your one stopshop to promote Your Business and get new customers for award winningcreative to getting as online in display video o TT connected TV andstreaming audio go to Hasixtueen thirty one digital advertisingcom! Welcome back everyone! Thanks forjoining us in the new Hanshixhunden ND thirty one digital new studio producedby ANP TV. You can find us on Huddl up with guscom. Now, let's join the huddle n welcome back up the short break,we're talking about Debbi today, and I think that it's so interesting speakingwith her about her career and her path and we all have a different path totake and her transitions have been amazing. We just learned a little bitabout her college life, so Debi, let's get into more about that collegeexperience for you and really what you took from collegeand maybe not what Jim taught you, but what your college coach taught you alittle bit to. Let you go into the pros and be a pro, so my coach was more. I chose Carolina and I chose my coachbecause she just let us be us and trusted that we had a team back homethat would make us play the best we could in terms of technically and thenthat she recruited kids that and eventually women thattotally got along and and were likeminded, and so we could work as ateam and we had the same goals. I mean we wanted to win a nationalchampionship period, so I was with you know, five Chavel and golf, butthere were about eight to nine girls at a time qualifying- and you know, like I said before I had thetime of my life and these women now are just you know, they're part F of my heartand my soul. That's how much I love them, and so that's how much I made that's how good my decision wasright, but INS, a torning professional. Look. You know it's like what I saidbefore. You have success in college. You need that you go play very high rebel, amateurtournaments, again now you're playing a not only against the best in thecountry and Gol College, but then amateur wise, again, you're playing allsummer, and if you have success and the better you play the cool invitation toget to play an other tournaments a like. You mentioned the World UniversityGames. I was with five or six other girls Hif. I remember correctly fromaround the country who were the best seniors. So all kinds of teams are son.The State Samonwas I state like we had the best time and we traveled to Sanand we played against other countries, and so I think, if you see success- andyou see you can hang with ostensibly the best at that point in time, be where was Alve to say, if you, ifyou've got money because it takes money, but you know, maybe you could try, and-and so I did so- it's not necessarily that my coach Ot college was like godead. You can do this, it's just that.

You have the right opportunities infront of you, the right tournaments you play well, you show that maybe you cando this, you see what's out there already and you can compare andcontrast, stats and data acquisition with not polyctic at all. When I clayit is now so now you can start to measure well, do you even have a chancsand you know so for me it was just like everybody else at that point intime, are you playing well? Do you have success? Are you one of the best, or isthis just a wishful thinking, kind of thing and you're going to spend twoyears on the mini tours and nothing's going to Haappen right? So you know you, you hit alittle bit on what I wanted to ask you about like selfscouting and kind ofmaybe, if you're growing up against opponent, you have a scouting report onthem. You know most sports. If you're going to play somebody, you have aScotter report, whatever it is, where their weaknesses are where theirstrengths are, and I don't know in golf if there is anything like that, whereyou can you know, do you film yourself, a lot. Do you know to check on yourswinger? Is it just going out and playing have somebody else, watch youand kind of understand where your strength and weaknesses are and then,if you are playing against Somebody d, do you I mean there's a big mental gameto it that I can. I can put pressure on this person in certain areas of thegame that they made fold or I may have a chance to be better than them. Okay.So it's interesting! So you don't you really don't know why in God, so now and if you're, if your viewers andlisteners are the same, it's completely changed. The landscape has totallychanged. There's many stuff and data platforms that have track not only thePJ torp but also the best in college and and it is so delineated it's from five feet, an in twenty feet in it zeroto twenty yards. How not just how fare you hitting the golf ball, but how foris the number one college golfer hitting the Golf Ball? So every facetof the game that can be tracked, except for the inside? You know a five foot or forBoodie or you wait faced with a five foitter to safe park and makes a Co.You know, so your heart necessarily is not being measured. There's now really good technical stuff, that'smeasuring the brain and how it's functioning. So that's that's the newest, potform! So there's so much technology an golf.I think, because it's a non moving ball thatthere's so much. We can track off the course and on the course you know, there's a lot monitors whichI'm just going to mention, because you may not know just based on yourquestion that can spit out from a three D perspective, exactly howthe ball is flying and spinning in the air, but also the dimensions of likethe golf club halfway down to impact and a halfway through. Then we also inthe game of golf have forceplates and pressure plates. So again, no you're inthe Studioo, which is easier than your sport,because you're running around, but you can sure in a studio, your fore data.Is it in the right time? Is it in the right space? How much force are you producing?Everybody has lateral, rotary and vertical force its the timing, correct,which is more than another, should it be more than the other, and then wealso have tons of thred that we can put on somebody to really see not only theforces, so the Kinematics, but also the kinetic. So the cinneticsare the forces, the cinematics other motions. So when you see still picturesit doesn't really do anybody. A service anymore, becauseit's a still picture, you don't really know when the forces happened to createthat still picture. So you know there's there's so muchtechnology. I think our sport is the most in terms of using technology than anyother sport. But again I think it's because it'seasy. We Cul PUTC yout oow and you grab all this data and then w put you on thegolf course and grab all this data and it is so valuable. No, it's all information. So what the coach, the teacher, thestrength and conditioning coach, the PT, the Cairo, the mental performance coach,the stats guy, the nutritionist,...

...what you do with that information isprobably even more important than gathering the information. His is justinformetion. Now how you apply, it is really the art of it, and so, when youget to this kind of rabbit hole yeah with a student, you better have ateam around you that can extrapulate what's important. What's not what's youwhat's not isn't important, you know so it's there for us and it's amazing, butthen the application of it is the key. Do you ever? U? Ever see all this newtechnology, because I'm sure with what you do you see it all coming at you,everybody want you to try hey. We just got this new thing we put on the end ofthe club. We can major and monitor every inch of every. Like you saidrotation, you name it. Have you ever seen anything in you go man. I wish Iwould have had that when I was playing back in high school o hundred percent.I would a the Ymca doing some crazy exercise thing that I saw in GolfDigest now. Right I mean it's a joke. I M Ean, the finess trailer on the PJtort is literally a joke. My best friend or one of my best friends is atrainer on tour, and so he and I talk all the time- I mean the the amount of incredible information tobuild a workout program. For said, individual is not only paramoul,it's imperative and again those people allbe not as many as one would think,but but those people are out there and oh, yes, yeah. If you have to be strongto play this game, you have to hit the ball far to play at a very high level,and so that information I wish I had that the equipment now versus when Iplayed is awesome and then, like. I said it would be awesome to have hadforceplate data that would have been cool. It would have been awesome tohave like all kinds of stuff. On the golf club and thred data, I mean I don't know, I would have been amazing,and so I just think it's so cool in our sportthat we have all that an our fingertips again. Now it's the application of it.That is the most important thing yeah. It's so amazing to me t at thathow t that people can zoom in and they just they just know their distances,and you know they're reading everything I don't even hardly even use a you know.If I'm a hundred fifty out, I just kind of have a field for it and I'd say I'ma hundred fifty out it feels like the wind's Bowng a little bit, I'm going tohit my nine. Instead of my pitchiwegs, you know something like that, so I'mkind of old school I don't use a lot of the technologies and everything. That'sprobably why my game's, not so great right now, but you know how do you feellike because, because do you see like players that have played back in theday kind of use that or are a lot of the older players really taken thetechnology to heart and using it to their advantage? I would say the latter. It would be odd for me to see somebody at the very top of theirladder top of their game, not using some sort of technology to measure.There's no reason to guess. If you can measure nowadays I mean that are justbe ignorant, thaayers ar and and the coaches and the teachers I mean theywould be, it would just be ignorant and if you'retrying to gain an edge, I'm another player, I don't know why you wouldn'tuse technology, doesn't mean that there aren't great teachers out there thathave incredible eyes which Harmon you know: Jim led Chuccuk, Randy Smith.These are guys that I know, thankfully, can call friends the're atthe top of the the poo chain in terms of instructors. Mike Adams he's amazing,he's become Ha Mentorhine. They have incredible eyes. They have thirty yearsof experience on me, they've taught the best of the best, but they use technology. So if you can marry both that's where theart and science comes in and that's where those guys are brilliant- andthere are many more that you know just they're, just brilliant teachers solike when I coach young quarterbacks, I can kind of see if they're mechanicsare off. You know what I mean: Byow they're, doing certain things. How fastdo you recognize that when you're teaching somebody like hey you're, notyour swing's, not the same as it was last week when you came in this good question, I think you shouldgo with ballflight what their ballflight?What's the ball doing? You know just me personally, like, forexample, when I would play on the...

European tour and come back after fourweeks. I mean I definitely had my setup was different. My Ball fliht isdifferent because I'm playing in the wind and the rain for four weeks- andyou know at that point time- Jim, I would come back and see meclean and belike, Oh my God, what's happening here, but the conditions I was playing in thatthat can start to alter the geometry of your swing. The Boll Lay. So you alwayswork in my opinion, off of borrowing that you haven't injured yourself andyou're. Okay, they work off a bull lake and what id she be for you. Everythingthing is individualized, it's end of one and that's becoming more and moreprevalent in golf to it's, not this broad picture. It's definitely end ofone you are who you are. This is what you do. These are your anthroclogicalmeasurements. This is what your body can and can't do. We've had youphysically assessed in the gym, by the way I'm making this verysymplistic, and this is how your grip should be, and this is how your bodyshould move and- and this is the ballflight we're going after those arethose are swing- DNA things that you know slowly o begin to learn foryourself, not that it's easy to self correct, but the broader picture there is its end oflife right yeah. No, I agree with that, because everybody has a different swing.I mean you go out and play with New People all the time, and you see it'slike you know, we're all different, but theballs getting in the same spot somehow some way. So, let's go back to whenyou're playing professionally now you're on Youre on a few differenttours you're doing different things. When did you have the idea that youknow like for me? I knew I was like enough to play a long time in the NFL,but I knew it wasn't going to last forever, so I had to figure out at somepoint my transition. What was going to be- and you obviously have become a greatcoach, a great teacher. When did you think that that was going to be yourpath? I know it's a good question. You know my mom doesn't love when I say this,but I came home from the European tour wasfully prepared to qualify for the LPGA and I missed it by one or two shots,and this was my fourth time missing. Q school and I was in my mid Tis and again very emotional, I'm a woman and yeah. I wanted it so so bad and you know there were there were a fewfactors whon. I had a few friends that left the tour. I didn't hit it very far. I'm GOINGNA say far enough, but not far enough. Youknow when I played against more DVS, I mean she would hit it fify by me. Sodoes that mean I not? As with my sevenwood as she is with her seven iron?No, because I had to compete Bu Day a day out on a major tour. The odds areshe's, gonna kick my butt more often than not, and then also trinancially.At that point time, it's very it was very top heavy. So how much money was Ireally going to make? And I want I wanted to make money. I haveto support Boself, so there were a few factors also, you know if, if you havea dream of having a relationship and having a family as a woman, it's notthe easiest lifestyle egardss of which, whatever side of the ile you're on it's,not an easy lifestyle. You are on the road and if you want to have childreneventually you're on the road, so I talke to Jim, because he he also played for living and then leftthe tour and we both decided, let's take a little break, need to figure some stuff out and I took a little break and he suggestedthat. Why don't I just look into teaching, I mean. I know I've been withhim. My whole life and I cound put on a fast track within his system. At thetime the mccleain school. We were one of the number one golf schools in thecountry, ther er were other ones competing with us, but like lad, MikeAdams and a little bit, no Buch, I'm not sure sure Wuch how ofschool back then, but I fell in love and poured as muchpassion as I did for playing for living. When I wanted to you know, gym was mymentor and now my boss and I wanted to you know I was I was twenty five twentysix. I wanted to show him that I could do this, so you know some of it wasthat some of it was I loved now...

...teaching and coaching I loved what hedid and I just poured my heart and soul into the NAT, which makes sense, givenmy personality and so i'De Been Teaching and coaching ever since, andthat journey in it of itself is so interesting and I'm very fortunate-and you know very lucky- I mean golf- hasgiven me a lot, so I'm I'm super lucky to be doing what I'm doing yeah. I feelthe same way my career as well. So do you remember the first person youactually like? This? Is My first student that I'm going to coach. You know that's a good question. No, Idon't but McClean. So I went on a fast trackwith him a draut. Then he sent me to PJ wrest. We had a golf school out therewith some top one hundred teachers as well and- and I spent a ton of timewith somebody named Carl Welty, who was one of jims mentors, Anon the last and and I was teaching there, and Iremember that you know I. I have a good basis for what I wasdoing, but I never really you know I haven't really taught a ot before I wasassisting in golf schools. I was watching gym all the time watchingother top of hundreds, but I feel like I was very much a cheerleader at thatQuin time. Like did I get people better? Yes, but I wasvery like oh my gosh, you did it. You Know Foust, for you know twenty five,thirty years later yeah I have no problem saying look. Do this is notokay? This is you know. We need to get on a plan herein a Po that makes sense, so we're not going to get any better. So you knowthat just comes from years and years and experience and watching, but Idon't remember that first student- Well, it's funny how about this one? Have youever had a parent come up to you and say I think my son or daughter can playin the PGA Tour Right N. I had that. I was at coaching my son's youth teamand I had a dad come up to me. Our kids were eight years old and Dad said Heydid you meet my son? I said Yeah Andrew is a really nice kid and he goes yeah ahe's nice. Whatever I said Yeah, what do you want Rick and he goes wel? Doyou think he has a shot? I said a shot at Ha. What are you talking about? Well,do you think you can play in the NFL and I said Ricki's eight rike there youknow, like I don't know he can never grow again. Hit can fall out of lovewith the sport. You might want to play something else. How can you ask that soI'm? How has that been like when you havethe deal, because the kids are Wantte, the kids are always usually great, butthe parents are doing a whole. Another story. Yeah I mean just it think it's an averysport. I Know Ito my fort all the time. What's worse, is I get parents who want their kids to play at a veryhigh level D, One program, and you know I think you and I can tell by the time they're fourteen fifteen,whether that may happen or may not, and so that's a hard conversation tobring a family back to reality, and sometimes it's just too late. Sometimesit doesn't t happen. Sometimes they don't want to recognize it. But then Ihave a ton of families who are like. Let's just see how good she can be. Imean that's when I ins Dr Rotella, he's a noted sport psychologist. I told one of my students whose familyhad other ideas and he just paired it down. Let's just see how goodshe can be and the other cool thing- and I think you'll like this inparticular, I won't mention the school. It's a very, I would say, let's justsay top the reprogram in the country from men's college. Golf okay, sthatOach, said to me debby. If they're good, we will find them soyeah that whole that stuck with meand that has turned out to be one hundred percent. True, because we havehad kids who haven't quite played a Plethera of Ahaga tournaments or national junior tournaments. It's beensporatic but they're good and we have gotten inquiries from top top coachessaid tell me a little bit about this kid. They do find you well yeah. They do. I mean I went to atiny, tiny school here in Pennsylvania. We had nineteen kids my senior year,you know we didn't know how to get recruited oranything, and they find you. I went to...

University of Talsa and, and you know just a Havg a good career and they just findyou- and I tell kids that all the time these kids want to go to yeah know. I was just I was just sayingthat you know if you're good enough, they find you. I tell kids that all thetime, no matter where you are just be, who you are enjoy, your experience playthe game that you love, play the sport that you love and if it's meant to be it's meant to be. I truly believe that so debbi now now you've been doing thisfor a long time. You have plenty of experience you travel, probably allover. I know you've been I've seen you on.You know whether it's in a magazine or on a golf network or the you know golfchannel different things. You're always you're, always doing a great job ofpromoting the game. What excites you about the game of golf to excite, Ithink, really to bring more people involved in it. I think we missed thecrowds this year and a lot of the tournaments, but what excite you rightnow about the game of golf? Well, I think the game of golf, unfortunately, because we're in apandemic has grown because of the Pan Derek. So I can't stand what'shappening in the world. I mean I can't I physically and emotionally can'tstand it, but having said that, people have come to the game of golf. I meanI've taught. I don't know. Twenty people knew to the game that would havenever taken it up at all. So that excites me because now we'vegot New People in the game. Juior golf is growing. Junior girls golf isgrowing. We had a woman president as the PJ ofAmerica. She obous see one of my close friends. I hope that golf is becoming the onlyreason I brought that up was Susi is, I think golf should be an example of just maybe changing with the Times that werewe're all inclusive. I don't want people to think that golf is just what the connotation was year and years agothat it's it's for a certain person or a certain class ofpeople. It's not it's for evibody. I teach kids that play the public golfcourse. I mean it's, it's theire for the taking for everybody and it's afabulous sort that you can play for the rest of your life in business you'reoutside. I have never had more fun laughing crying hysterically, then,with my friends on a golf hourse, so I just hope more people take up thegame and and there's so many coaches and teaches at teachers out thereacross the country and Av the same passion as I do that just want to teach and have ye love thegame as much as all of us have, and I think it's universal- that my peers,people even mentors that I look up to that. I go and watch teach even them sopeers and they and also those people there's among the best. We all want to learn we're all strivingto get better, that's universal and we are all so thankful for the game ofgolf and what it is brought to us in terms of relationships and friendshipsand connections and networking and all of those wonderful things about thisgame. So, if anybody's out there and hit's nevertaken it up or wants to, if you just remember those valuable tenants, I can't imagine that that somebodywouldn't take it off right right, and I think that even youknow, as you hear about the old country, clubs, you know, and there they're,private and all these people, I mean. I live right by one t's that sometimes Ieven feel like that when I go in there, because I'm not a member of that cluband and it, but as you get in there and you realizethat that golf has fum become way moreprogressive kind of right, and I think that that's that's been great, there'sstill some old rules and understandings that this is this. How things were donethis? How we're always going to do them and I've played a lot of golf coursesover the country and I think you're right about that. We've seen theinclusion and right now, let us know how everyone can find you and you knowwhat you're up to next, where we can see you what you're doing I mean you've,helped author books, you've done all kind of stuff, so please let everybodyknow how they can find you. So I guess just follow me on Instagram atDebra, Debrah Johngar do an iger and I don't use twitter that much it's atdebby Doneger, but I do a bunch of stuff for ditest and Golf magazine andI'm trying to put out some valuable...

...drills and you know hopefully we'll see whathappens in terms of serious and the pandemic. Maybe I'll be out there againnext year, which I loved and we'll see what happens? You know they. The golfmedia landscape is ever changing. So who knows that? There's an opportunityout there and I'm happy to give it ago, ith, given it so, but thank you so muchfor your support and thank you for all those questions very interesting and ifit inspires anyone with anybody with a kid out there to take upthe game, then then we did our job yeah. That's that's what it's all all aboutgetting more people to play, because it is a fabulous game. So one lagtquestion for me as an amateur I'm like an AIGT HANDICAPI' I'm, but I just have fun playing. But ifthere was one thing you would tell me to go. Work on right now without evenknow my game. What would it be while giving your background and thatyou playd football? I would go get a physical evaluation just find out whereyou're mobile, not mobile, stable, not stable.You have enough mats, so that's not going to be a problem and hitting EVOLVAR, but I would be armed with that information on a simplistic level totake to a teacher and say hey, I have no hipmobility. What do I do about thator because Yigt Hav swing that can fit your body, but you need to be armedwithout information yeah, so is that, like I mean I've donea track man before, but hat didn't give me any of that information. No, youliterally have to go see somebody to be physically evaluated. Just canmovementjust go to your local Gim, but I would go to somebody WHO's. You know smartand trained, and as done this years and years and can just give you look, itcan get as detailed and crazy as you want. But if you just like to know howyour body functions, then a simple human movement screen would be very valuable to take to yournext lesson. AWESOME AWESOME! Well, HEY DEBBI! Ireally appreciate you joining us, sorry that we cut out a few times, but I knowthis is a is this is a crazy day and you know we're all excited to see whathappenes so and probably we're all excited to have it over with as well.It's been it's been an insane process, the last few months. So I appreciateyou taking the time to join us on huddle up with Gus. Thank you so muchfor having me all right. Thank you! Debi there she is Debbie Donniger, oneof the greatest coaches out there. If you want to see her obviously followher on Instagram at Dever donnager. So everyone really appreciate you joiningus another episode of Huddle up with Gus. You can find us on RADIOCOM orwherever you listen to your favorite podcast. You can also find us on puddleup with gusscom and the new sixeuen and thirty one to Giie have a great PAC hi. This is former NFL quarterbackGusterot Sixthueed D. Thirty one digital advertising is your one: StopShop to promote Your Business and get new customers for award winningcreative to getting as online in display video o TT connected TV andstreaming audio, go to e thoandsixhunden N Thirty one digitaladvertisingcom.

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